Finance SPC - Thursday, 21st November 2019 at 2:00pm - Dublin City Council Webcasting

Finance SPC
Thursday, 21st November 2019 at 2:00pm 









Start of webcast
Share this agenda point
  1. Seamas McGrattan
  2. Kathy Quinn
2 Draft Terms of Reference of the Finance SPC
Share this agenda point
  1. Dermot Lacey
  2. Kathy Quinn
  3. Dermot Lacey
  4. Kathy Quinn
  5. Daryl Barron
  6. Kathy Quinn
  7. Seamas McGrattan
  8. Eric Fleming
  9. Kathy Quinn
  10. Seamas McGrattan
  11. Eric Fleming
  12. Seamas McGrattan
  13. Alison Gilliand
  14. Alison Gilliand
  15. Kathy Quinn
  16. Seamas McGrattan
  17. Dermot Lacey
  18. Seamas McGrattan
  19. Dermot Lacey
  20. Seamas McGrattan
  21. Alison Gilliand
  22. Dermot Lacey
  23. Alison Gilliand
  24. James Geoghegan
  25. Seamas McGrattan
  26. Neasa Hourigan
  27. Seamas McGrattan
  28. Alison Gilliland
  29. Seamas McGrattan
  30. James Geoghegan
  31. Seamas McGrattan
  32. Dermot Lacey
  33. Mary Callaghan
  34. Seamas McGrattan
  35. Neasa Hourigan
  36. Seamas McGrattan
  37. Paddy McCartan
  38. Alison Gilliland
  39. Alison Gilliland
  40. Noeleen Reilly
  41. Daithi De Roiste
  42. Nial Ring
  43. Kathy Quinn
  44. Alison Gilliland
  45. Daithi De Roiste
  46. Kathy Quinn
  47. Seamas McGrattan
  48. Paddy McCartan
  49. Seamas McGrattan
  50. Anthony Connaghan
  51. Dermot Lacey
  52. Neasa Hourigan
  53. Eric Fleming
  54. Alison Gilliland
  55. Caroline McMullan
  56. Kathy Quinn
  57. Seamas McGrattan
  58. Alison Gilliland
  59. Kathy Quinn
  60. Seamas McGrattan
  61. James Geoghegan
  62. Seamas McGrattan
  63. Neasa Hourigan
  64. Dermot Lacey
  65. Seamas McGrattan
  66. Nial Ring
  67. Seamas McGrattan
  68. Noeleen Reilly
  69. Alison Gilliland
  70. Noeleen Reilly
  71. Seamas McGrattan
4 Agreed Audit Committee Minutes - 14th March 2019
Share this agenda point
  1. Nial Ring
  2. Seamas McGrattan
  3. Paddy McCartan
  4. Dermot Lacey
  5. Seamas McGrattan

Seamas McGrattan - 0:00:01
along here so we get cracking
first item on the agenda is the draft minutes of the Finance induction day which we had on the 24th of October
because the damage and the seconder
paddy there always is when a tank Catherine Fiona for organs not Day was well run event and I was a useful day
so the main purpose of this meeting then is just to go through item to the terms of reference and Nigel trade a work plan is to start to flesh out what we agreed in at the induction day what the action points how we how we action point progressing dolls and what our priorities are so that's really what the main crux of agendas today so I am going to ask Hagit reinforce and then I want Members sought to set their priorities and if the action plans are agreed of as there's different action plans we can stir map able to De year ahead under 5 years ahead

2 Draft Terms of Reference of the Finance SPC

Kathy Quinn - 0:00:59
chairman and Members will see the two reports are linked to the terms of reference and the work programme so it may be if we take the terms of reference and I suppose just bear with me because I think we'd this draft five-year probably passage was e-mails from me were different drafts but I suppose the essence of this is that we try and capture what it is that the purpose of the FBC is so I'm did local property tax and see this detail there and I supposed to says B C will have an interest in that as if being one of the funding channels for DC say a there's a reference to Brexit I suppose reference in Aldi uncertainty what will that mean that there's not much detail and that
the next bit of the report is around a business focus Dublin city is very conscious of the need to have a good trading environment and being supportive of business and all that that brings so many strands to that so you know there's a general piece about that around
been mindful around rate and the cost of business and also changing legislation does the new Act introduced this year and then others those pieces talked about change in rate and related to climate change measures and what would that mean but I suppose that could well be just a general reference of our interest in business
the next action there then is about governance which typically this as B C has had around you no accountability governance and
transparency in a general sense and I suppose that the purpose of that and building trust which builds a good environment which threatens communities and encourages business and so on so there six objectives there and I've got some narrative around all of them
and I suppose if we can take those objectives and just run down to the work programme then at the end the multi-year annual work programme there's 15 items there that I think from our discussion that we thought we would do
and maybe if I could ask at this stage if we could just to get an understanding what the be anything that
is not on that
list that Members and just a cultural quickly so the online I reach yet tailing piece like is there are opportunities and disadvantaged as probably primary or held a wee how can we keep on top of that or maybe make policy recommendations that would help to
get the best out in Dublin City understanding the new rates act that's a specific what's what's in that what Ltd and City are not
in terms of the environmental piece that are talked about any changes around climate changes and the support to business around that
08 4 there is a very broad one but it's very very important to build a more sustainable funding system for local government item 5 then around the governance based around no action and
making sure that policy recommendations are made where necessary I think there was a clear when an item 6 around God's communication and be transparent to users
how often would not work
Dermot Lacey - 0:04:04
submit a report that would impact in Dublin City Council about
the Deputy wards have did have a new ones that they do about
Kathy Quinn - 0:04:11
indicators in the kind of thing and then they had specific issue once that might come out every compliments and some of the reports and might not have any recommendations furrows and some might have made so I wouldn't be able to say that you'd have won every month
what about if it became the standard practice for three for those who
Dermot Lacey - 0:04:30
don't know no one gets the national oversize an Audit
Commission meeting
fairly useless body set up under the Local government Act sorry my opinion
would it be possible to get a lift every time Daesh report even just this committee would be notified because there might be things in us that people felt were important that maybe the Executive didn't feel was important
Kathy Quinn - 0:05:00
I'll excite communication was seen Item 6 were seen as communication to constituents and to citizens a discussion we had around that was around understanding for people to understand how money is spent and allocated and that we would develop that over time I'm the next item was around this Committee understanding on I suppose more importantly it maybe the City Council as well as a whole to understand what legislation has gone to the Dal and with implications that to see what how we could manage that Item 8 that we'd log as I'm debt no we didn't actually talk about their specifically at the time but a tender has always been an issue for the SPC that there is a debt management piece whether that end a year or two year I'm Item 10 around the was again going back to communication that we develop information show sharing initiatives of Item 11 sums that came through the City Council about that we look a participatory budgeting which young has be is operating in the States for 30 40 years and just see how that might work here
I'm Item 12 was localness social-based procurement initiatives that we look at how we can expand those successfully obviously we still we don't want
to have tie procurement openness of we have things that are so complex that people can comply with them but there must be ways that we can change over time and I didn't 38 if you remember there was talk about the EU already F but just other broad regeneration financing options
and enforcing was an item that we didn't get to talk about the time
Daryl Barron - 0:06:29
but we had been talking about earlier which is around amid the trend
Kathy Quinn - 0:06:31
transient visitor visa levies the new version of a Hotel Bed Tax I'm we did touch it that in this S P seeing the previous I'm arrangement and we don't have the legislation to introduce it was insane Edinburgh City Council have
Dunne quite extensive consultation and of approach to the Scottish government to say Well give us the legislation and they are considering it and
are saying they will introduce 20 20 Selby very well you know wouldn't be crazy thing for us to track that and just see how that's gone and that consultation process was very wide because it is acknowledged in the business issues of
hoteliers who may be very nervous about this model would mean for them so we have to watch that so I suggest that something we could look at again and then the last item I'm was for us to look at Latin is really two items it's to look at us using crowd funding
for capital projects in the UK that's typically used for I'm
Parks and social facilities but typically it's aligned with social enterprise so that if you have the small cafe in the local park that you might get crowd funding to do it up but it would then be operated by say
people who left school or excluded from school and modern have many opportunities for employment so it's not just a case of doing it up and then put an alert to tender for a regular commercial operation so I suppose that's the two pieces to look at in that
so after all those 15 if there's Antoninus maybe let me know
trying to do all in proposing to do was that we formally adopt Item 2
Seamas McGrattan - 0:08:08
of the draft terms of reference and then maybe we go through ordinary to 15 if you go through them one we want I know people want to come in are people happy to receive that way OK so can we adopt the terms of reference agreed
OK we go on to Item trade and we just haven't got the agenda Azar that everyone has an agenda onto result you'd see no entry at Turf at the start it's listed 1 to 15 and then
any reference at one or other documentation to the question of designating people
to commandeer if you like our responsibilities with regard to procurement to make sure that contractors whoever they may be that we take upon
to do the work first time it's don't properly in accordance with the law paying their pensions games money and all the rest we know all the
Eric Fleming - 0:09:13
scandals HB and we know that we had I think I arrived here on the on the coat-tails of a problem and an are side with a particular builder 10 years or eight years ago whatever it was that problems as you know persists consistently and I just wanted to know I didn't see any reference to any kind of responsibility on our part to make sure that we have proper people people designated to quota or make sure that we monitor the scene to make sure that people get our what their entitlements and also that the builders were delivered to the proper job
this is an item that Eric has raised at previous S P says and it's
Kathy Quinn - 0:09:50
something that the City Council tracks in its in the capacity of can we can't designated staff to go out and I'm arrive on site in any circumstance because they need to have the capacity to do that job like one doughnut they did the the stays vehicle for doing that is the inspectors and nearer I think this is the estate agency we do monitor DDA compliant and terms of the character be a clerk of works on the site and and we look for confirmation from the contractors that they are compliant and if there is any issue that brought to our attention we will address it but it's a very tricky area I'm not trying to minimise what we shall be doing its very tricky area for us and to request that staff go on to its site and asked for questions that may or may not be
enabled to do that but we try as best we can to monitor all contracts and for them as well as part of the contracts
general conditions of contracts
perspective activities have to confirm that they have been compliant and sign off that they are making submissions on pensions and other obligations
it would still have
just one so do we still have a contrast Committee or
Dutch stronger economy re-established
understanding is that it wasn't a statutory Committee that fell I'm not sure when but some time ago I'm but that's that that wouldn't have been dealing with the issued a Erica Stephen what Eric is looking for is far I'm four sites for around the issue of some contractor is supposed taken Eric's point you know we have introduced clauses into our contracts that people's at the entity sign up that they won't be sub-contracting under 1 p won't be any instance of bogus self-employment and that's in as a condition of contract
the concern really is that there's wholesale
Seamas McGrattan - 0:11:39
having out to work every
political agencies now sub-contractors of sorts An arose in the past haven't been too bad that most rural right the problems the rules have been broken because nobody going out there to police them and the question of arrival on sites mean trade unions are woven so until with dealing with issues I think they the local authority would have would have considered definitely have the right to go in and talk to the clerk of works can have a listen see who these people are at least know that if the people concerned are being registered in the office
Eric Fleming - 0:12:19
and then find out they get no proper rights and also add these people proper builders are detailed work right because the facts of the matter is that even in
the best level of places the eastern help are the health boards at 12 country and educ Saadi education boards
have been have been hoodwinked by paper going in and making a bags of jobs and get away with blue murder nobody goes to jail I walk away no problem except a workers
so I'm just making the point I think special mention should be made at some stage I'm not saying today but I'd like some reference be made to us that we would have a little bit of
exposure to our responsibility let people know what we're doing
Gilliland thank you
Seamas McGrattan - 0:13:06
Alison Gilliand - 0:13:07
thank you Chair I am just trying to think how we might do that and I know if
given our responsibility for planning we can if we hear of a complaint about non-compliance of planning
Alison Gilliand - 0:13:20
permissions that we can put asked for it to be inspected and wonder do we have something similar for contracts like a contracts compliance Officer whereby if we did hear of irregularities on a site that we could issue a complaint and there would be an investigation process thank you
Kathy Quinn - 0:13:41
Chair is provided for under the Procurement framework getting people to come along with complaints and probably Eric would agree to this is very difficult because if you're working on the site you might feel I'm putting myself 0 so the actual numbers of complaints that are received whether by order any other contracting authority is very low and so in terms of if you receive a complaint then to be able to use it against the entity if you like you to have to prove it and there's not that many that you get down that road and cause cheap people turned to back away so there doesn't tend to be that bank cordata that you can use to say Well actually you do so you did that I'm unfortunately
2 July as part of the Merrion odours will not want to go to Council ac
Seamas McGrattan - 0:14:22
Dermot Lacey - 0:14:25
there I support our what are you saying it doesn't mean we have kept the AMF today immediate is the Strategic Policy Committee I think we should lift the either on a future agenda so that we can all try and work our way towards finding a solution on earth and I do think City Council should be ensuring the highest and employment conditions and are on on any 33 but connection with if they disagree tutor items in the in the same context 1
I believe we should keep the idea the issue of the review of the local property tax on our agenda and in particular the item that can throw McCartan unfairness is always raising the non-payment
I'm anything by people to have 20 13 or 2 thousand and 10 residents for the new houses Hiddleston's 20 13 and acting I'd like to do something I thought catty about day-to-day
ever every year budget time we have a quick proves a true to various programmes of expenditure and to be honest we don't really have the time to examine them properly I wouldn't mind if a if at each meeting we I think it's your 8 programme to forgotten now if we each meeting we took one I've had a really serious look because I suspect what happens in the last occasion I note your stats and costs and Aids Day really
there probably is some expenditure that worth were continuing to spend money on because we always have
but that doesn't mean it's necessarily the priority of the current Council budget time we don't have the time to have the examination but I mean if we were to set aside for half an hour at each of our meetings for one programme to have an overview of us I think we might be able to make better budget decisions in the future and I would propose that I would be added to in today
we can read what onto ingenuity tanks into the terms of reference
Seamas McGrattan - 0:16:11
down what you before the next meet and say we can get us on to agenda there is support and I would support your point but I'm not sure how exactly we carry it up I sit down with you and we try it out and we will get onto the end of this SBC That's OK thanks so are Members happy to agree item to
OK and then on Item 3
on on page 14 year Dan there's a more detailed
List on each item so if we regrettably take item by item which is controlled on and if Members want to come in so I didn't want us to finance SPC would examine who changing retailing and digital trends might impact on DCC and consider policy recommendations that would secure the best outcome for Dublin City
people are happy with that and the actions listed
ITEM 2 to Committee to gain an understanding of the
Dermot Lacey - 0:17:12
Seamas McGrattan - 0:17:28
Local government rates and other matters including the new Act and the opportunities it presents the DCC
it's something that we're going to have to look at an
I will tell us as we see a lot of work on this and made submissions but it's something we're going to have to see how it impacts us in this term
because land
Alison Gilliand - 0:17:55
where did include the Congress of trade union as a stakeholder in that
thank you
Dermot Lacey - 0:18:09
Alison Gilliand - 0:18:10
we're just checking me awake
okay aims at
thanks chairman and just for the other stakeholders that are now be
James Geoghegan - 0:18:22
encompassed but can we put you know other sectoral stakeholders that might arise because when we are looking at this legislation were going to try and target childcare or whatever but just let it be included that can do that thanks
Seamas McGrattan - 0:18:37
this Committee will make a contribution to the development of rating policy regarding environmental factors and recommend policies to assist business
can Oregon
thank you Chair
My my I suppose I have a question about the language in the overall
Neasa Hourigan - 0:18:57
item just the use of the phrase environmental factors might be a bit loose and it might be an idea to align the language with the city's climate action Plan so possibly that should read development of policy are rating policy
around climate action and the protection of biodiversity or something like that so that it aligns more with policy that we already have in place
and then I suppose there is a question there about whether we should include issues around and I and I suspect that this is built in a bit into the idea impetus rate pastry budgeting boss it does seem to me that there there is a gap may be in considering
gender proofing poverty proofing some of the decisions that we would make no that would fit within some of the climate action policy work already done but it might be something that the
the Committee feels should stand alone
but certainly stuff around
poverty proofing child poverty gender equality and diversity there should be some language in their around that I think I would also suggest that perhaps there's a couple of stakeholders that we could be adding in there but maybe I'll e-mail those on
Seamas McGrattan - 0:20:11
where we can make reference to Policy in that agenda items are understood to make a direct link to that
OK I don't far
sorry sensibly and
Alison Gilliland - 0:20:23
Surrey again that we include the Irish Congress of trade unions and that might just be rolls on through the mall thank you
we do tomorrow
Seamas McGrattan - 0:20:30
ITEM 4 page 17
councillor Gagan thanks chairman and yet will I just think for this
James Geoghegan - 0:20:39
that may be the stakeholders that we've listed aren't necessarily the ones that would assist us in
developing a framework for how are we going to effectively become more autonomous and generate as much money as we can
in an autonomous way and in that regard like I mean I can see universities the Department other authorities that to me makes a lot of sense but perhaps the other ones don't and I was wondering could we also add
international dimension to this
you know I think Councillor Lacey was on the radio the other day and Pat Kenny asked him you know what does Paris do when it comes to the valuation of water an Irish Water you know I think let's have an international dimension does again that's encompassed but in terms of that be included in that might be considered
defecting to nurture
Seamas McGrattan - 0:21:28
Dermot Lacey - 0:21:30
a school or Department or temperament would have called in Cork University College Cork that deal specifically with local government and it might be worth while linking in with Dr going live in
do they have the necessary we can look at that as a
Mary Callaghan - 0:21:55
an interest in that particular one as well I wonder is it possible to look at things at a more strategic level as well so for example you know are we spending money on things that in the longer term it would be better to do something else so an example would be spending a lot of money on homeless HAP when we could be actually building houses are not spending money on that so I just don't know where that fits in but at a strategic level maybe we should be thinking about how we could do things more sustainably and effectively in the long-term
I shall tell him included as well
Seamas McGrattan - 0:22:31
we had some reference to this and we want to get the reporters to command we're going to return to this as PCSO
that's what action point on that
item 6
happy enough
has already
Neasa Hourigan - 0:22:59
sorry could I just include part possibly on unambiguous communication that that includes
accessible communication that because it with the deaf community and there's a lot of
visual impairment tech that that would include an if we had explicit reference to who would be very helpful
sorry and perhaps some of the stakeholders there would include some of those groups
I can send your systems
Seamas McGrattan - 0:23:28
councillor Item 7
Ms J McCann
thank you Chair
Paddy McCartan - 0:23:50
I think a lot of the new counsellors or part of the budget consultation group there were shocked at the
level of debt arrears from the rents
looking back at the figures coffee I think five years ago it was 19 million eNotes 32 and a half million in a city where you in effect for the last six months year we've had almost full employment as
it strikes a discordant note that there's this level
of dash now I know that some efforts have been made there to
press the nuclear button in terms of talking about evictions but
I think any of the Council's new councils I've spoken to
say this is an obvious area where we're looking far money that is owed to this Council and
the use of the words Dublin City Council seems to be a soft touch this people will
in effect be able to stay in their premises but I was addressing these issues because the rate now at last level is approximately 55 percent of
tenants are
in arrears are not complying with their obligations so I think we should definitely I don't remember the last SPC particularly focusing on this but given that the problem is now almost over control to my mind comparing that with the compliance rate for commercial rates which gradually has improved over the years and is now well over 90 percent and this is something that I would be very anxious to
to look at and I know I know it's a sensitive issue but
it was one of the problems over the Budget not wanting to put up the
differential the rents on the basis that
you'd only be penalised in the people who were compliant
thank you I number speakers having
them in Councillor Gatland
thank you Chair
Alison Gilliland - 0:26:16
it's my intention as Chair of the Housing SPC for our next meeting on the 5th December that we discuss estate management rent levels and rent collection and I'll send the agenda of that survey Finance SBC and anyone who wants to come as more than welcome an all Seiken dirt on webcast and if following thus it might be useful for us to have an
Alison Gilliland - 0:26:37
amalgamated a Committee meeting to discuss how we actually manage that I
can assure Israeli
Noeleen Reilly - 0:26:46
thanks Chair I was just wondering what's there a change in collection policy or anything that has
met their debt increased
so much in
the last five years because it does seem to have
Kanye jumped
out of nowhere really
Councillor Ost
yeah Camargo Chair am charges to echo Councillor Gill Annan's
comment I think it might be worthwhile to have a joint meeting between
Daithi De Roiste - 0:27:07
ourselves and the Housing SPC and most most worrying is I think it's a figure just under 27 million are 24 weeks or more
that's an awful lot of money so as I said it's something that we do need to look at and also what can we be doing or parents or that were not keep added to that toll on a continual rolling basis
thanks to Councillor ring
a government or coherent curriculum
Nial Ring - 0:27:32
yet just my tie in with Item 7 as well just government legislation because I know when we were given the information in relation to the Budget did mention a household miscellaneous provision Act 19 20 14 and the section that
was supposed to be enacted to allow us
get rents straight from social welfare payments which hasn't been enacted thought might be something that we consider may be pushing through this Committee because it is the legislation is there and for some reason it doesn't seem to have been pull into in into operation remote
I thank the Chairman and cancer Riley's question must have been a
Kathy Quinn - 0:28:09
changed there was a change legislation has been a lot of detailed commentary sent out as part of the budget process and the detail of the act it's just I haven't got it here is in there which made it more difficult to evict and really for eviction was on anti-social behaviour and so I suppose the was I'm it was seen as more difficult to get that process through court I'm yet you'll know from those replies that we have court orders for four to have paid up and one is in the process in a payment plan and the other one is going towards eviction and there will be a
you know or renewal of a focus on that from now to I'm a in in on until we see a dent in the problem so that is very much a focus given that in housing ensure accountable and will of sit received reports of the Seine where we're looking at resources across the organisation and Lars well to focus on bringing forward cases to court and
making a change in their culture so it like it is it is a problem is not fixed easily so you know just in terms of if anyone was looking to change it tomorrow so it'll probably take a number of years it won't be fixed and six months ago but I would hope to see stabilise in Twenty Twenty or as near to because our debut has gone off so just as a functional matter most it might actually be that the arrears have maybe a slight increase in 20 20 but not a lot and then started to come down so that's a I would hope to see that will see improvements in the coming year
Alison Gilliland - 0:29:33
it is picking up on cancer rings propels other things very goods and if if this Chamber agrees this Meeting agrees that something I could bring to the Housing SPC as a proposal and then we write to the Minister as jointly air seeking that that legislation be brought forward and enacted
and then just very briefly to manager what kind of processes have we
Daithi De Roiste - 0:29:52
got in place within the Council for credit control hours in going after people or however you want to put it because I do understand it's a very very fine line and roughly of the 27 million that's over 24 weeks
how much you those are not just off the top of your head not the whole would be people who are say Non-engagers so that's just not engaging and then what would it be in terms of engagement with tenants
Kathy Quinn - 0:30:17
suggested he had a general questions over what we do and people always money so debtor managed by the Department that issued themselves and they each of the specific legal framework so the debt arrangements and the capacity for us to chase money safer rate is completely different to rent so we're focused on rents here now and looking at actually you were asking about the specifics of what engagement we'd have returned again I mean I control on the response to our the SPC members but in a recent report for and terms of the Budget we gave out a detailed
process of how housing deal with letters phone calls for spawning second morning and so on and sweated data process sent in that reply so I'll circulate that chairman if that's OK
varies considerably more included as an action to stop that we do
Seamas McGrattan - 0:31:04
formally consult with the Housing SPC on on that
okay thank you Members Item 9
happy enough
participatory budgets
I mean it OK
i'm just constituted as a lot of
abbreviations and so
can we maybe just
in their reporters just put a foreign investors just for newer Members may be difficult
now it is more than this one
agreed Item 14
from a car
Paddy McCartan - 0:32:22
this did come up and the last Finance SPC anything for legal reasons is couldn't be pursued but
I don't know Kathy is there any changes there I think this should be something that we can have control over look what happened the local property tax we collect 80 million and we end up with less than 4 million here is something that would be could be quite lucrative for the City and all the other models in all the other cities I was talking to somebody their recent days had never been to a city a major city but there isn't some form of bedroom tax or wherever maybe we maybe we won't call it a bedroom tax we will say No it's a transient visitor levy
so it's completely different to a bad tax that might
open up a new vista to approach the issue from but I'd be very enthusiastic this
particularly that the number of hotels that have
been built in the last five years and
I mean even is there any way if that did progress this issue of Airbnb as well could be included in it
to maximise their return given the PUP the popularity of Dublin as a tourist venue
is looking at my approach will be we should pursue this until the
Seamas McGrattan - 0:33:48
total be handled at Council Conaghan
catty where we watching my Edinburgh is down in their process instead
Anthony Connaghan - 0:33:59
of looking at what's already been done successfully in other cities are we not just prolonging instead of like I just did a quick Google and the same 6 million hotel visitors and I was thinking NICVA recharge Euro-pop Mike help balance our budget a little easier
can we not just look at once they are ready dawn immediately rather than just wait until to see what happens in Edinburgh
no tree more space to bring cutting back in and Council ac
Dermot Lacey - 0:34:31
while I support a hotel lobby for years and my only problem with this is I think to be weak and I think we we should be lobbying for the introduction of it and anymore market-research anymore consultations Corcyra hotel lobby will will oppose it fame hotel lobby that can opt to price as you know three or 400 euro in event of a Northern Ireland or control or something wouldn't euro 1 percent whatever it is it's fair in many different countries collected here we can only introduce a 50 record skills aspire to do it so we need to lobby on this this is a win-win for Dublin and we should push all the way
I agree with that I think that what we should be lobbying for it but I
Neasa Hourigan - 0:35:16
am also aware that there are some innovative methods for for actioning this before we actually get the legislation in place like the system of increasing rates and then providing a repeat rebate to all businesses accepts hotels which would would achieve the same i'm the same effect so I agree with the Chair that we should be moving ahead with this until we're told that we can't
Eric Fleming - 0:35:47
I really can't Councillor McArdle is very hard to find a country where it doesn't exist really
but in the case of Dublin amid the explosion and tourism is obviously
something that nobody ever expected
what does this explosion at the moment of of so-called student hostels there are springing up everywhere and there are huge right to City
and a lot of people are using them come from various maybe universities are other countries and the US dollar places as hotel rooms
quite a bit of summertime or wherever and I also think that while they are there they day they look for a hefty fee after the students are paying for but
obviously Daddy whoever may have done a few bob on the farm or wherever they come from in many cases but I don't think would be exorbitant for slow for the same on those rooms to because as a an explosion of those rooms
and we have to find money somewhere and I think that wouldn't be a bad development if we did ask tanks cancer Gilliland
Alison Gilliland - 0:36:57
sorry about that
I am sorry it's not related but when I finish this at this could we go back to the previous one thank you
thank you just to say that while I agree with cancer perhaps that we would like to cities where this is already in place to look at how to
Caroline McMullan - 0:37:16
do it I thought it was an excellent learning opportunity to look at how Admiral went from being disbarred from doing it to being permitted to do so so it was in that context I think that Edinburgh's useful
and would be really good where to fast track the process perhaps
thanks for NIEA and I think everyone feels this is something we should
Kathy Quinn - 0:37:37
be able to do the issues were not were clearly not at the minute and as as Caroline said or the useful thing about Edinburgh it's close until it's got a similar approach of the local authority in that in other countries Local authorities have more functions that they can do other things but around the very clever consultation process like in the last SBC we had their home to a total Tellier's in here we wrote letters to the ministers are the rest of us and we ended up still being in the same position so it was more that I'm Edin budget consultation process that convinced the Scottish government to say yet we will make a change and now the Scottish government are in that consultation process so I'm not saying that we just tracked them both they did a very wide one light that same I should Airbnb be charged should caravan parks be charged all kinds of very wage I'm consultation that you couldn't at the end of it you can say that no one in Edinburgh knows about this because it's so well done so I just thought that we might learn something from that because we put a lot of effort into four and we didn't get anywhere and then the whole crack about how it's applied does the State of the City Council are does go to some
some Committee that makes sure that it only goes to tourist related things which must be what we want to know it is about promoting tourist accompany some backdoor in for something else but you know we have to have transparency around that and that's all trusted so it was just to learn from that
no detriment would be combated cancer killer and you want to go back to Item tortilla
Seamas McGrattan - 0:39:02
yeah thanks 5 minutes sorry charges
Alison Gilliland - 0:39:05
clarification and when you talk about regeneration or are we talking about regeneration of our housing complexes or is it just the city in general because if it includes housing Benazir stakeholder they Housing SPC should be on the less
items raised by Aidan Sweeney for Mbeki juster had given us posed
Kathy Quinn - 0:39:24
already he couldn't be here I think his thoughts about the time that it was around urban regeneration and he spoke about the urban regeneration for none and in that context you didn't specifically mention housing
and finally item 15
it was an interesting one
Seamas McGrattan - 0:39:41
people are being pursued Archer
OK thanks members just around priorities is early ones we wish to prioritise over others
yes sorry can I suggest that we prioritise
James Geoghegan - 0:40:06
because it's the biggest issue the funding of local government the one that we're faced in every single year we're facing this year and I don't think it matters we might not agree with this building amount is what government is going to be in place central government local government going on for 20 years raise I think the more we can focus on that on air and covers every dimension capital funding current funding I think we can make a big dent in that and shine a light on how awful it is and how an independent we are I think that would be a good achievement for us
I hope you have got an echo those sentiments next Monday night as Earth Councillor
Seamas McGrattan - 0:40:44
definitely number 4 I heard someone else Number 14 as well Councillor
yeah I mean I take that point but what I would say is that
Neasa Hourigan - 0:40:52
ITEM 4 to a large extent will be will be talking about national legislation and in the position of lobbyists whereas
I would like to make the case
for prioritising unsurprisingly Item 3 where local level we can really make a huge amount of impact and where the money goes will impacts those climate issues
Dermot Lacey - 0:41:14
the trouble is that are all important but Item 4 I agree with Councillor Gagan I mean there is a real problem that nobody actually understands
how local government
is funded running anybody knows and it's funded through bits and pieces from everybody in short term measures and government bring in in scheme and another government change in that scheme and
every change has a downside impact particularly in relation to Dublin very often
I have always believed that we need to get some sort of national buy-in on an system funding local government everybody accepts the PAYE affairs if two people might argue but raid 30 allowances are you know what you're allowed to claim for and so forth but this general national agreement on PAYE but has no national agreement and now even national understanding on how local government finance and that that makes it very hard to make our case because people see the look property tax being paid in DC government gives 100 million to Dublin and in all of the thing the fact is I think we're 66 percent listening self-financed I can't remember to from the Budget here today most people don't think that and even though we're 66 percent financed by ourselves or through charges we levy
government still essentially holds about 100 percent of the power because it largely determines what we do so I think I think for is a really important overall thing that we need to develop as a Committee but I also agree with asset that we need to be dealing with the two smaller local things we can do so I'd already seen him in conflict with each other their parallel priorities and if he achieved those to be happy
Seamas McGrattan - 0:42:57
some confusion Item 3 cancer Hurricane that that's national policies not to Civic local towards its as that national element or as well so
and but I really cannot actually are they're not necessary in conflict with should resist just to get a feel for members what would we want the priorities lie that's that's really what we are trying to give him today
i'm just RHS number
4 obviously but Number
8 as well just
in terms of debtors
and how we tackle
Nial Ring - 0:43:23
that and and the things we were suggesting via D
Helson Committee or mother
thanks anyone else
Seamas McGrattan - 0:43:37
we'll have out when we have our 15 Dawn will we can we can retire the SPC Councillor Nolan
Noeleen Reilly - 0:43:45
I agree with Councillor ring I'd prioritise the issues that we can control ourselves first
before we spend a lot of time on issues that kind of virtuous I write out of our control like government policy
as outlined
Alison Gilliland - 0:44:04
here I would actually disagree with that because I think as a Local Authority we have to stand up for ourselves and we have to start making voices and lobbying and it's something we're going to be doing in the Housing SPC is identifying gaps in legislation that could improve a housing supply delivery and a life in general so I don't think we should be afraid of holding a symposium and you know even suggesting changes in legislation and presenting a funding format that we know what work for us because we are the people that understand local authority needs thank you
as early
Noeleen Reilly - 0:44:45
just to follow up on Allo I have no issue with that at all but I think it's going to be very hard for us to go to Central government
you know looking for new legislation on any issues when we viewed outstanding debts herself Dogana point them back to that straightaway
OK thanks members so the grade

4 Agreed Audit Committee Minutes - 14th March 2019

Seamas McGrattan - 0:45:07
ITEM 14 is the Audit Committee the minutes of the meeting on the 14th March just for some of the newer members of the Audit Committee is a subcommittee of the City Council
but the minutes come to this Committee does for an audience and it's not necessarily a Sub-Committee of this finance SBC but are two minutes from here to stay for four or noting
okay Any other business
Nial Ring - 0:45:36
ensuring it just for information on the ARD Committee it's not as we last met in March 2 thousand 19 there was a meeting a couple of weeks ago but obviously it didn't get into these minutes we did meet and we have a new Chairperson which is Louise Ryan of Trinity College so just by way of information Brandon fast out on eight years so in corporate governance terms etc. as was he stepped down but we do we do meet four times a year and it's
very important that committee
Seamas McGrattan - 0:46:06
tailoring just for some of the newer members are now today may maybe be technical and I was very hard to follow but that was just to set out how we go about our war clowns or meetings will be more
informative from now on and we do be
to be more engagement I think today was just as well as set it out so I know some people may have
maybe for shale available dear won't be laid at going forward is just today we just went on to set out our priorities may regard so it'll it it'll be different going forward Any other business before we go on to McCarron
Paddy McCartan - 0:46:39
Erica Jill suggests that we have Members here from all the different parties and there will be an election next year and if it was included in their manifestos that there would be favourably disposed towards a transient visitor levy we might make some progress so
it might be a good idea to run it by the different parties and
start off the ball rolling there
government might
Dermot Lacey - 0:47:08
Date Date Date Date Date day might choose they might choose to pre-empt a said actually deliver on us while we still have the opportunity to do so
thanks members
next week
Seamas McGrattan - 0:47:22
added to next meeting its circulated anyway it's
we certainly the list 16th January thanks very much