Monthly Council Meeting (Mon, 4th Nov 2019 - 6:15 pm) 

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Overall - 0:00:00

thank you Members

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:00:20

good deal with a number of items under Lord Mayor's business the first
very sad one

1 Lord Mayor's Business

this afternoon we heard of the passing of Gay Byrne a Freeman of Dublin City
I propose to open tomorrow Book of condolences in The Mansion House tomorrow at 11 am and the as is the case with all Freeman of the City the flag will be raised to half mast and I hope that you will join me in passing on our condolences to Kathleen Watkins and two daughters Susie and crawler and the extended family we have also had a request for the but condolences to be available here in City Hall and I will facilitate that as as well
in regards to there was a number of items sorry I'll deal with emergency motions in a moment there was also a report forwarded to our office to Lord Mayors Office regarding a working group established by this Council on the remunicipalisation of doubled City's waste management services that was 14 by the chair of that group Councillor Latty dualling thank God Tina MacVeigh was also involved they had agreed to complete their work by the November meeting
so that report is being published now on the Lord Mayor's business to
OK
so I'm not allow there to deal with that issue and that will continue so
OK
so we will publish the report now are all under Lord Mayor's busy and
under this
we publish that report now at this stage a Group leaders meeting we would agree that the report would be considered by at the next opportunity at a Council meeting and also that we will include the SPC which is now established in that work as well Councillor Donald I see a indicating
growing Margot Norman I do appreciate your taken or such late notice

Cllr Daithí Doolan, SF - 0:02:27

on the Lord Mayor's business and I want to thank all the parties who have been involved in this in this very important piece of work around taking the domestic waste collection service back into Dublin City Council ownership the meetings have been very productive we also welcome the the three unions have been involved we also had a very productive meeting with the management John Flanagan facilitated a very productive meeting last Friday they have agreed to come on board with the working Group as well so we should have the management all the political parties and the unions to meet the next meeting is this Thursday at three o'clock in City Hall would encourage parties particularly Fina fallen fina Gael to attend as it is cross-party we want all parties involved to make sure that we bring this to a successful conclusion and will afford a proper and full debate at the December meeting and thank God ramila Margaret on Area support thus far Hanks

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:03:16

Council thanks go to the Bill there's a number of emergency motions which were submitted to me and I just remind Councillors that emergency motions are considered if they are within the functional area of Dublin City Council and if they are in emergency which arises which you could not have dealt with should the normal submission either to an SBC or to the City Council meeting as a result almost all of the emergency motions which were submitted to me were ruled out of order and I would encourage you to waste of your own time to be submitting emergency motions that are going to be ruled out of order submitting your SP says you can call for emergency meetings of your SPC's now there are a number here that I've discussed with Group leaders and I'd like to raise them here at this point the first one being from Council cleanly dot org or members of the Green party
and they related to the very unfortunate debt of nearish Jan the cyclist
in the region of St James's and I hope that we can pass our condolences of this Council along two to their family I think the issues raised there raised issues around traffic issues and their best dealt with at the Area Committee but we would like to pass our condolences on and I acknowledge Council Danny Dorling
and the members of Green party who asked for me in regard to that the second one was an item in regards to Councillor dotty Doolan and also members of the Green party separately put an emergency motions regarding Irish Water and the issue of the boil water notice which was issued to buy or Irish Water unfortunately the treatment plant concerned is operated by Fingal County Council and therefore operates outside the functional areas of the City Council and therefore it's not emotional for
for for not a subject for an emergency motion however it is of the utmost seriousness to the people in this city and we will be asking we have asked Irish Water for a full report which will be circulated to all councillors Councillor Gollick I'm reluctant open open anyway
sorry
so I would just Councillor Garvican will open we've got a microphone tea
yes I had indicated
are there
it relates to the Council's from emergency motion which is submitted South Kelsey Dalek

Janice Boylan SF - 0:05:27

the sorry the reason I'm I asked I pressed and I don't put in emergency motions and put this them because the Area Committee meeting listen for three weeks it is urgent that a safety audit be done on that junction and I don't want to wait three weeks for that to be done

Cllr Catherine Stocker S.D - 0:05:39

I want to the Chief Executive stated that that's imminent

Cllr Criona Ni Dhalaigh, SF - 0:05:43

councillor Gollop somebody with your point but it is far more appropriate to call an emergency meeting of your Area Committee than

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:05:49

to have an emergency motion on Dublin City Council or an area meeting of the of the SPC and we have we have to start using the procedures of the Council
On on it and
perhaps a manager can come back to you directly on
on that
that concludes the item Lord
Mayor and just
under planning not just just a point of information I haven't I haven't called anybody here at this point Council County well I think very carefully I have not called you in at this point I said sorry that concludes Lord Mayor's business though Councillor order sorry Ms Kelly Councillor Matt explained had indicated that he had a point of information and I'm taking his point of information I will then take Councillor McDonald

Cllr Mannix Flynn, Ind. - 0:06:28

thank you very much Lord Mayor just in relation to Irish Water and in relation to the contamination issue it is I and my staff about but the idea that it's none of our business that its outset about jurors oxide along its regarding planning we have a statutory obligation to where people in this city and this came up before when open and a similar motion in relation to rings end we gave them planning permission we Dublin City Council pay a lot of the pensions of the staff there we have an obligation various straight off
I need for my
I believe that we should actually
don't disagree on anything that is being is that Irish Water I poisoning the people in the city I don't disagree with anything that's been said it's not ruled in order and I'm not take any discussion on the on the emergency motions Council McDonagh Committee of a point of order while

Cllr Mícheál MacDonncha, S.F. - 0:07:11

ordinary you yourself opened up discussion on the emergency motions were discussed or subject matter you refer to them so I think it's grossly unfair then to say we can't and I have to say as a former or where I think the ruling in relation to what is an emergency motion is completely off the wall when we have a situation where half this city 600 thousand people where given Boil Water notice and I just say on breaking news this evening
Newport Water notice has been issued presumably for the same area or a great part of Dublin now how can it be that that's not deemed an emergency motion yet the House on Usher's Island is as an emergency motion makes no sense
Council McDonogh
this issue was discussed with your Group Leader at the Group leaders meeting I agreed to raise the issue regarding either water out of courtesy to the councils who put forward it Ali any of the Council's could afford a topical issue and two thirds of a could have offered as a former Lord Mayor you know the Standing orders as well as I you could have put forward as a topical issue and we could have a full

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:08:12

debate
on the issue
on the issue of Irish Water there will be no issue with it it is not a falls into the definition emergency motion and is yourself that is putting the for those councils who put it into the wrong category and they should do it in the correct category
I know I'm moving on everyone to but I we are now on to item on the agenda
Lord Mayor argue data Lord Mayor Lord Mayor
Lord Mayor I think I was

Overall - 0:08:48

Cllr Donna Cooney G.P - 0:09:01

Councillor you years disclosed Councillor discussing the stance of issue
just to correct you
just to correct Councillor yeah I I did not Councillor Councillor Councillor I said the Council's Dolly

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:09:38

and members of the Green party all members of the Green party
councillors I am in your hands this is your meeting if you wish if someone wishes to present Standing orders to suspend Standing orders and to have a debate I'm happy to facilitate that this is European or doubters
Lord or Lord Mayor

Dermot Lacey Lab - 0:09:59

North Lord Mayor without making Lord Lord Mayor else tells Councillor Dermot
Lacey achievable councillor burke of a point of information ordinaire
without as Councillor Burke way stood for a point of information and says

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:10:11

Cllr Christy Burke, Ind. - 0:10:16

can I remind Councillors that the area of the city there was impacted

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:10:29

was my area of the city so I am not taking any way from the importance of the issue the issue is that it doesn't have is fed into the definition of emergency motion it should have been a topical issue ordinary also Lacey for the last contribution on the for the last contribution Councillor Izzi Ardmair
without making

Dermot Lacey Lab - 0:10:44

a long 3 can I simply ask that tomorrow you might contact Irish Water on behalf of the countries
Fécamp
meeting and get a delegation to go
from the County I can confirm that I have and I confirm that I have already contacted Irish Water and asked for a report to be circulated

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:10:57

all me members so just to clarify without interruption well out of I've already asked Irish Water for report that can be forwarded to all Members and we can proceed from then deirdre
mai r
item to cast off o know our there on earth do Ardmair

2 Ceisteanna fé Bhuan Ordú Úimhir 16

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 0:11:18

can I have a proposal or Lord Mayor that Councillor Burke and a seconder for that is Councillor Flynn
three
My Lord Mayor items
for
information and Councillor Larry O'Toole point of information
I'm up that to speak like yourself Lord Mayor

Larry O'Toole SF - 0:11:35

yearly I represented on La Moneda counter-terror especially on the north side of them in the west side of the city were affected by this now you are asking us to go away from here tonight on this very important issue and go away and tell our constituents and Europe to we can't discuss this here tonight what have Irish work about naming given an excuse to come out again as Councillor on the Houses into
opposition to but when we had
and are given the houses for sale to show Lord Mayor that's not good enough for the people in this city dangerous Donnie time say because it's so vile war notice without by early has not good enough for the people of Leicester City
this is
Lord Mayor shall be solid enough for the people and they asked
you're not you won't even last that schuchert you're not solid enough for them shame on you

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:12:23

when you're finished Councillor tool I said if we wish to see suspend Standing orders to discuss it I was open to do that so instead of having your pantomime you could just put forward a proposal to suspend Standing orders is that what you're doing
are you putting forward proposals to spend Saturday
Councillor tool
would you like to put forward a motion to suspend Standing orders to discuss Irish Water
Councillor
do you have a seconder diverse
it needs to be sorry
Councillor tool kit you can you clarify
because I know you were able to use a microphone moments ago can you please clarify if he wishes I
can use it again yet do

Larry O'Toole SF - 0:13:01

you wish to suspend Standing orders to discuss the Irish Water issue
yes
do you have a seconder
Councillor Flynn can I put that to the vote

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:13:09

Cancellara's where profi proceeding to vote on the issue of whether we're suspending Standing orders to deal with the issue of Irish Water can you please vote yes if you wish to suspend Standing orders now if you don't
we're stopping the vote now
so

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 0:14:24

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:14:29

so the vote on favourite to suspend Standing orders is yes 38 no 11 we've therefore agreed to suspend Standing orders there is no clear up option as to what happened to this point but can I propose that we use the group system at this point to discuss the issue of Irish of Irish Water is that a great her or the alternative option the alternative option will be that we take the all of the motions have been put forward together and that we ask the there's multiple HMO movers of motions
just the two questions that Irish Water
can I just emotions on Irish Water Councillor Gollop
you put forward a motion Jewish would you agree to your motion being discussed
you wish to move your motion or would you be happy for it to be discussed by a group system

Cllr Criona Ni Dhalaigh, SF - 0:15:14

sorry can I just say to Councillor apologies Council Doolan you wish your motion put
ourselves yes yes Norma

Cllr Daithí Doolan, SF - 0:15:20

I therefore I'm going to take Council dualling and the Green party

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:15:26

which is which was moved by all of the Green party councillors and take them together Council Doolan you have three minutes grow

Cllr Daithí Doolan, SF - 0:15:33

Margot yes I appreciate suspending Standing orders Law Americans this is an emergency situation made more and more urgent by the fact that as another Boil Water warning issued today and I think it's an absolute travesty non-acceptable of Irish Water to bring us in a situation where the water is not good enough to drink in Dublin
I was around when the government proposed Irish Water and we were informed for tea for three reasons economic viability infrastructure and standard of drinking water over the householder and standard of of water for industry we were told we needed Irish Water they will come riding over the hill and on the White Horse and will sort it all out with some sort of magic one paid for by the Exchequer while we've been left with is an absolute the battle of a situation where in 21st century Dublin the water is not good enough for the residents to drink and nobody appears to be accountable the was
a report in March 2 thousand 19 where the was recommendations put in place but to my knowledge and maybe so somebody could can contradict me if other information that that report was never implemented we need to know why but the recommendations not implemented that the Department of Environment No there were about the lack of implementation of the recommendations if so when did they know why haven't they stood over it so I think there's dual responsibility the Department of Environment for for their their lack of lack of oversight in Irish Water with the recommendations in the March 2 thousand 19 report and then from Irish Water itself for holding us all to ransom with with Boil Water
situation and it is unacceptable I think we had moved away from this this makes us it's all well if it wasn't so seriously the laughing stock of Europe that we can't even drink our own water but I'm going to leave it there and going to leave my time for this debate to other people but I would hope that a report from yourself Lord Mayor in the strongest possible way goes to the Department virement asking those very questions they they know about these recommendations from the March 2 thousand 19 report were implemented why weren't implemented and whether the Department now anti-Irish water and if we dragged in here kicking a scheme if necessary to be held to account for the virtual pausing of the people of Dublin Glamorgan
Council's Dalakhani as the first day on the Green party motion you have three minutes

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:17:41

Cllr Donna Cooney G.P - 0:17:44

thank you admire Just to say that
the Green party councillors are calling for urgent action to address
the Environmental Protection Agency serious concerns about the safety of water supply of clean drinking water from the Leixlip water treatment plant
Irish Water did not heed the warnings and the supply was contaminated resulting and 600 thousand homes on a Boil Water notice and yet again we are back on a Boil Water notice from Leixlip this is simply not good enough clean drinking water is our most basic Need Ultra Violet treatment is needed to make the water supply from their refer liver Liffey safe an Irish Water plans to use more river water from the Shannon which would pose similar risks although the river Liffey was contaminated with the sewers SCharge earlier this year just before the Liffey swam as everybody here knows and that is the very water that we are basically drinking that is you know they're not heeding the warning they're not doing their job right the water should be tested over the weekends there was another
I have seen that the water was there was a warning and possible contamination of the water back in March and they said that they didn't test it because they're barbarities were not open over the weekend you can get a simple water testing kit you know to test the water it's available
from the Water Institute up and dcU a lot of us have gone around taking samples from Rivers ourselves testing water on the show something should have been done about that we should not be proposed to risk where you know whereas a developed country and if we can't have basic water the fact that there are so many of the 1 treatment plant as well as a danger and a risk in itself
because you know if if we if you know if it were you know at its very serious concern we wouldn't have enough water then to supply the citizens of Dublin in the Greater Dublin area
with climate change now maybe about 20 years ago and we knew what the effects of climate change were going to be
we tried to get Dublin City Council at the time to make sure that we had water security going forward and that we built reservoirs to supply water to the people of Dublin and the Greater Dublin area and that didn't happen so now we're looking at taking river water which it has its risks in itself I do believe that Irish Water are not doing the job that they are supposed to do and that it should go back like the Minister for ways to Dublin City Council where we can make sure
that we can have the security and supply the citizens of Dublin with the water how long would you live without you know clean safe water and it's just not good enough
that another Boyle notice has been put in place in less in a month and this is going to be an ongoing issue and am very very concerned about it and yeah and I would like the support of all Council with this thank you
without it I opened the list in the next speaker is
Councillor Joe Costello

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:20:49

thank you Lord Mayor well I agree entirely that is totally

Joe Costello Lab - 0:20:53

unsatisfactory that we should have the leak Leixlip water treatment plant breaking down for a period of weak
and the Boil Water Notices should be X should be
directed pretty much on a daily basis there was no clear indication as to how long it might take
people were considerably disrupted in their activities in terms of their available the availability of water whether or not they had to Bywater in the shops and some people certainly did have to do that as well as the boil water notice just how how safe it was on health grounds and whether or not there was close beryllium and it seems to have been largely that there was a blockage in the supply rather than that was a direct contamination and the fear was that would be contamination because of the degree of blockage that was there and that the treatment plan could not operate in a proper basis is just not good enough that there should have been a daily recurrence of a boiled Water notice coming up to the people and people not knowing when or how that notice might be lifted here we have Irish Water and the newly appointed body finding itself in this situation we have a major
water plant well on one of our rivers that hasn't been able to prove produced two to conduct its business properly we have proposals here in Dublin where we're going to bring water from the Shannon
we don't know how it's going to be treated
on the basis that's going to prevent
any form of contamination so really what we need is as your senior self Lord Mayor we need a report we need a report from Fingal County Council we need a report from the EPA we need a report from Irish Water and we must be able to discuss this issue then to ensure that Dublin does not have to face these problems in the future and that we're not concerned for people are elderly people and for children and that we have to resort to boil water
to ensure that there is health and the water system thank you
the next speaker is Councillor Mary
Fitzpatrick

Cllr Mary Fitzpatrick F.F - 0:22:59

as electronica is a headache insight cancer static your next Council may have marked on it

Cllr Mícheál MacDonncha, S.F. - 0:23:09

well I take what what this
situation shows
is that there is a massive failure on the part of Irish Water as it's Councillor Doolan said there was an EPA report in March identified I think 8 failures and eight recommendations we don't know if those failures have been record rectified presumably they haven't because we've another Boil Water notice tonight or what has happened to the to the recommendations
if this is totally totally unacceptable and we are all very conscious that the Irish Water entity was set up with the main intention of placing ultimately our water system this was the intention behind it into private hands are semi private hands and with that came the drive to install water meters in charge on a household basis not was a complete failure thanks to the resistance of people on the ground and utter failure and since then in my view Irish was main concern has been P are trying to
retrieve their position rather than doing the job that are supposed to be doing a job which was done very well by the local authorities yes we do need a coordinating body nationally but the job was done was being done in much of it is still being done well by the local authorities and yet we have a proposal to transfer local authority workers in into this Irish Water entity well I think we've received two very loud warning shots now with these Boil Water Notices and I think maybe this will if you pardon the pun turn the tide on Irish Water and we all need to hold them fully to account
thanks Council digital Heaney

Cllr Deirdre Heney, FF - 0:24:58

yes thanks Lord Mayor just a question I spoke to the manager I know that Dublin City Council used to run the Leixlip water the Leixlip plant and I'm just wondering why we're getting the press releases and that it's always about the Hagia see Irish Water and Fingal why is Dublin City Council not been mentioned I personally would feel much safer if Dublin City Council was involved certainly anything that I try and get Irish Water to do it's a complete and utter nightmare there's a man in Hammond's town who has water leaking into our from a metre outside his house and the ASB cannot fish or cable because there's a leak in the major Irish Water continuously come back and say there's no leak in the major budget as a puddle of water outside the man's house they won't talk the ASB they keep coming back to the man telling him there is no leak so I suppose I would love to see Dublin City Council getting back involved in dealing with Irish Water issues and not having to deal with with Irish Water directly because it's a complete and utter nightmare when anyone comes to me and I'm sure everybody else in agree when people come to you with a query about an issue relation to Irish Water but maybe the manager could answer my question about the Leixlip and the finger will involve much thanks Lord Mayor
as Councillor Hainey Councillor Mannix Flynn

Cllr Mannix Flynn, Ind. - 0:26:22

the press this button noses
look I mean this is a classic example of kicking the can down the road we've been down this particular area for the past two years in the southeast area the well Irish Water came into was and told us that they didn't even have a drone so that it didn't know the kind of contaminants that they were actually pumped into the Irish Sea they didn't know the kind of contaminants this isn't a leak this is a complete failure of a company who are a semi-state company who are poisoning tens of thousands of people who can't actually drink the water the appalling sewage into Dublin Bay appalling sewage into the River Liffey and there's no stopping these people this is simply outrageous and the fact that no one is taking any responsibility Dublin City Council's scientists are responsible for the Wallabies for the for the water quality within this particular city yet Dublin City Council knowing full well that delivery was full of human excrement during the leafy swim allowed people to swim in it at our own risk I mean it simply outrageous Lord Mayor that we are being told every time we put a motion in that it's none of our business now let me just tell you this much the Irish Water staff awareness water we pay the pensions Irish border took our after 2 billions of euros of assets and where we won the issue in relation to the charge for privatising water etc household we simply handed over all these particular assets but the problem with that scenario was this who takes responsibility for the water who takes responsibility to hold Irish Water their account own Murphy is the Minister for the Environment there's not a peep out of own Murphy is simply outrageous No this is causing massive damage to our tourism causing huge damage to our households I mean who would want to come to a lousy country with manky filthy scummy water which is human excrement nobody would nobody in their right mind so I don't take the issue here lightly Lord Mayor I think that this is a real real serious issue it's bad enough for around the country where it can be really really appalling but for the capital city that selling itself as a big grandiose paces encouraging people to come there's looking for an industry that's trying to build homes and what would be supplied in a manky dirty water and leave nobody here to hold to account is simply unacceptable and it's outrageous and are really doesn't have that much got to do with climate control it's got to do responsibility this has been going on for far too long and I want to see more than one year and I want to see them penalise thank you
to Councillor Ann Castle many of his party

Cllr Mary Fitzpatrick F.F - 0:28:44

thank you Lord Mayor and Lord Mayor I was indeed on the last City Council with yourself and others when
Irish Water was being created and and we fought very strongly as City Councillors to reject the proposal that was put forward
and to privatise and create Irish Water
what I would say Lord Mayor is that for homeowners for families for people with elderly relatives young children
it is totally unacceptable that they cannot have confidence that the water coming out of the taps in their homes if they are lucky enough to have a home in this city is unsafe
when I was re-elected in May I asked for a meeting with Irish Water Irish Water did come to this Council myself and a couple of other councillors from the Greens did attend with them but for all of the years that they've been for the billion euros that was spent on them these Boyle notices now are becoming more frequent there is no evidence that they have improved the water supply in terms of its security or in terms of its reliability
and we as a city are being crippled with their lack of performance it is unacceptable that Dublin Bay was not safe to swim in during the summer that the Liffey is contaminated and that the tap water is undrinkable so I don't know Lord Mayor what you can do tonight but I would urge you to use your office to have the Minister the HSE the EPA and the Head of Irish Water come and account for themselves because it is totally unacceptable that our capital city does not have drinkable water from our tops thank you Lord Mayor
for your houses Patrick Councillor Dermot Lacey

Dermot Lacey Lab - 0:30:25

well Lord Mayor I agree with all of the speakers in
expressing the view that fitters and are entitled to a clean water supply and clearly there have been problems over the last couple of days
there being a couple of those problems over the last year or so but I think we should be no fair and honest also to make a suggestion that Dublin water if manky in dirty and unacceptable all the time is I believe a growth over exaggeration deeply unfair to the people who work in Irish Water and indeed in Dublin City Council underwater services and does nothing to help find a solution because to be engaged in that sort of rhetoric all you're doing is chasing headlines rather than trying to solve rather than trying to on the progress of for Council fairly mediocre licensed
the lord mayor La
La La
lower than their silence for councillors calculated to be just a moment councillor flynn you haven't been called on to be please be fair to Councillor Councillor please continue
Lord Mayor Lord Mayor
it's Councillor Flynn please allow Council they weren't Lord Mayor it's very hard not to interrupt your counterclaims ramblings but I did resist and I would expect that he would resist from interrupting my contribution this Council because I mentor interested in solutions not in chasing the headlines and can I can I suggest Lord Mayor as he did earlier that you tomorrow along with relevant officials would seek a meeting with Irish Water and the ministry in fact I think it's a Minister of the Environment Minister Bruton rather than Minister Murphy that we would seek a meeting with them to see what we can do to play our part in this I'm not absolving anybody from their responsibility from contributing to the problem but we have a responsibility in contributing to the solution to the problem we in the Labour Group and I am sure other countries are prepared to do that so let us go to Irish Water see how we can find a solution how we can contribute to that solution and work on it from there because it's not acceptable that even if it is only for short periods of time the people don't have a proper clean water supply thank you
Councillor John Lyons yes thanks Lord Mayor we got that e-mail this

Cllr John Lyons, Ind. - 0:32:38

evening from Irish Water about the second Boil Water notice we got as at 21 minutes past six and it's quite incredible for a plants that provides 20 percent of Dublin's water to be on its second boy in law it is now in such a short space of time is hugely concerning and what strikes me is that the EPA did an audit of the plant in May of this year flagged serious issues one of the substantive ones being that the two storage tanks in which the debris that particles in fact that the water where 25 years old 25 years old we set up waste water in 20 13 six years ago they spent nearly half a billion 450 million trying to force ATMs these water meters outside people's homes to extract even more water from people that money should have been spent an auditor being carried out immediately when Irish Water were set up to see at the border infrastructure what needed to be improved what needs to be replaced and so forth instead they've spent six years wasting valuable resources our resources the living off the fat of the land exactly
all they've ever been doing is trying to set up a scenario where they will in time privatise the water infrastructure and have water charges reintroduced by the back door at you with the excessive charges right now it's hugely concerning
like really and truly 25 years old at these times and we have to ask ourselves what is Irish Water because the vast majority of people doing the work day today and the local authority staff for all service level agreements and what you have is a layer or two of middle and upper management who are on rather large salaries some of whom made a lot of money out of the blue bag incinerator when they were working for all yes I'm thinking of Gerry guarantee in particular and these people highly paid command the national media and they ask us public representatives to do their job how you get the information out well we were reliant on public representatives to do it and this isn't only with the boil water notice that that we have this problem when when major work has been carried in an area are Varna finish on this and I'm talking about lads in piping and lead pipe replacement it's near impossible to Irish Water to give advance notification to people families that their water is going to be out for short space of time and that's on a slightly minor issue but when we come to the significant issue the boy water I think what we need to do what the solution is is we need to this band this until this regard completely Irish Water because it's an entity set-up profile for privatisation and that's where it's headed
clear as day after day Councillor Lyons Councillor Ray McAdam

Cllr Ray Mc Adam FG - 0:35:15

thank you Lord Mayor I think the first thing to say in this debate is that the use of language is incredibly important and I think some of the language that has been used by colleagues is
wrong on is way above over the top
people have dublin expect decent drinking water and I believe that the request that some of the motion has been brought forward by my colleague to the left and Councillor Cooney and our colleagues in the Green party should be honoured and what I would suggest Lord Mayor in addition then to obviously right into them that the Members of the CPG would meet then with Irish Water before the end of the week so that we can provide clarity because our constituents deserve as much clarity and information as possible that all been said I do believe there is a level of rose tinted glasses
looking back in terms of the management of water supply by look this Local Authority and others across the country and the funding was Councillor Fitzpatrick was asked about is there evidence it was this City Council the provided the evidence that Irish Water had improved the quality of supply to Dublin's if you look at between 19 97 and 2 thousand 11 the amount of water mains rehabilitation works to took place it was less than half that has taken place in the last eight years in some areas was in place talk to your constituents in Christ the King talk to your constituents in Grandclément talk to your constituents in the not in the North Strand I'm not sure you do and I think what what he and the other thing we have to the other thing the other thing we have to
I own interruption outer wards I without interruption Lord Mayor
am I going to get better protection here Lord
Mayor able to stand up for yourself Councillor my God America without interruption Councillor Academy continue without interruption thank you Lord Mayor
mentioned colleagues have also mentioned whether the HSE have to be involved I think just be to be helpful and to be constructed constructive as I understand that the HSE is the drinking water quality regulator along with the EPA so it's important that we are so we are satisfied with the quality of water Dubliners are drinking are as accessible I think one thing I will agree with Councillor Fitzpatrick as a parent of a young child it is unreal
that's your the were sterilised bottles and thinks that it's only become a reality obviously but these are the types of things that people adopters are being put out but it's important we get the right information and again to re-emphasise the importance of using carefully using language debates such as this
councillor monarchs are Council Maryfield

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:37:41

thank you very much Lord Mayor I think what we're talking about here

Cllr Mary Freehill, Lab - 0:37:43

this evening we do it a more sober manner is extremely important in the sense that we're really talking about how we have lost access to public bodies in the city when I came on this Council we had competencies in tourism
health water traffic Planning and portent docs all of those have now gone into quangos that are being run by people that are unaccountable and not part of the democracy of our country and I think that's probably what we really need to focus on the fact that democracy is diminishing below Leinster House level out a very very fast rate the level of of democracy at local government in Ireland is a pale shadow of what we have in the rest of Europe and close to two to Russia really than it is to any place else might I just say specifically in relation to Irish Water that if we're having a meeting with them I would like to include the rat minds and Pembroke drainage scheme I have written numerous numerous e-mails trying to find out where things are out and I get very technical replies that mean absolutely nothing the level of pooling over the last couple of days confirms that very little has been done in relation to the outlines and pepper drainage scheme there was built in 18 50 is not fit for purpose and that is why our gullies are not able to take the heavy amount of water at the moment so I am formally requesting the way of meeting with them that we also deal with WRAP minds in Pembroke Road that we're told honestly work has been done on that please and formally proposing that Lord Mayor
an ultimate speaker Councillor Pat done

Pat Dunne - 0:39:26

Lord Mayor and listening to the debate here we all are in agreement that we need to have a clean safe drinkable water it's how we get there is important and there's a degree of hypocrisy once again in this Chamber and particularly on on this occasion after signal Delfina fall my colleague Joan Collins today tabled emotion in the doll has gone through the foot number of stages
basically to have a referendum to ensure that Irish Water our water is never privatised your party Fina fall are stalling the Lange and refuse to get behind that particular motion much to the delight of of on Morphy
and the government ministers if you really want to get something to happen in relation to Irish Water guest Chair TDA's again your front bench to support that referendum because as John Lyon says here earlier on the money that was wasted on trying to install water meters
if that had gone into upgrading the infrastructure we wouldn't have the situation that we have today and those of us including myself who are threatened with prison who had been arrested for stop and water meters at that time I think we have been proved to be correct now the way the Sir to make amends for that is to support the referendum to stop the privatisation of Irish Water
Plexiglas

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:40:54

and from my own behalf I want to come in on the debate I suppose
because we of our proximity to the Fingal area Finglas grassed embankment and parts of sanitary ware very strongly impacted by the the boil water notice I think many people in my constituency are very concerned firstly bed delay in why it took so long to issue the Bywater notice what were the health impacts as a result of that
but equally as Lord Mayor of the city I am very concerned about the impact that this will have on tourists coming to the city and to the investors who coming silly I do occasionally be in Dublin airport during the Bywater notice and there were warning notices up in the restaurants of Dublin airport for all of the visitors to the city to say which in the indicated that the water was not safe to drink don't know whether
ministers are so I'll have issues with that but I have an issue with that and I think it impacts on on our city now as I say I propose that I have called for or asked for a full report from Irish Water on this issue there's a number of calls here in order to have a meeting with Irish re water I am happy to do that and I think for flexibility by suggests that will have a representative from each party rather than naming the CPJ or any or the SPC and I will do that and I will I will contact Irish Water about that additional request in the in the morning which we read your agreement Manager I dunno I know outside our area but you may want to come in on this issue

Mr Owen Keegan - 0:42:23

no I think we would agree with the Member's the issue of a boy notice of such affects so many households and so many cities amount of major concern I think is entirely appropriate that should seek a meeting with Irish Water and presumably Fingal would attend that meeting and they can account for whatever whatever happened and just to emphasise the plant in Leixlip is run by leak by Fingal County Council has never been run by the City so I like other water treatment plants are amounts that we could account for our actions but in this case we have had no involvement so it's not a matter for city council officials to
respond to

1 Lord Mayor's Business

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:42:58

hooker suspending Standing orders has been restored the last item and Lord Mayor's business was the emergency motion proposed by Councillor Lacey sorry apologies before move off that there was the two motions move there by the by the by the movers we don't have them in front of us because they were not approved but I think we should put them to to a vote so let me read them to you the first one is Councillor Totti Doolan
are we agreed that the motions
we agreed we will read them Lord Mayor we haven't
seen them
we don't know what's in them I accept that Councillor costs are they they were circulated to Group leaders they ruled out of order and that's why that we don't have them printed in front of us but I can read them into the record now the first one being from Die Doolan Dublin City Council expresses deep concern at the recent Boil Water alert across Dublin we welcome the publication of the pay report on the incident at the leaks of water treatment plant Irish Water and the Department of Environment must be held to account for their actions Dublin City Council calls on Irish Water and the Department of Environment to clarify why the march 20 19 audit recommendations were not implemented where the Department aware of this failure question mark that's for Council Doolan
and from Councillor Dominic Cooney and what appears to be all of the members of the Green party
that the City Council call on Irish Water to put in place the recommendations by the EPA to address the security of safe drinking water to the people of Dublin City and the Greater Dublin area after 600 thousand homes were put on a boiled Water notice in October due to contamination at the leaks of water treatment plant is that agreed agreed
we will revert then Standing orders are restored and will revert to the final item Lord Mayor's business which was the Council motion put forward by Councillor Lacey which he agreed to take without debate and I will write to the Minister on the on that issues that agreed agreed the last item on the Lord Mayor's business and it refers to the previous discussion I raised it with Group leaders in regard to the volume of emergency motions which we put down now we've just seen that it is up to Members as to how they want this meeting but it is a marked contrast that we had zero
submissions under topical motions which is the method which councils have to decide which this item is discussed and we had almost 10 under emergency motions no ultimately we went around the houses tonight by voting on one of those emergency motions Councillors that's not the way to do it if you wish to have its topical issue discussed there's a mechanism there put it down to towards will vote for the one that we feel is most important and it will be chosen a really urge you not to submit emergency motions I just feel it's not the way to proceed I go I'm going to move on to next item on the agenda
councillor Green Network

Cllr Criona Ni Dhalaigh, SF - 0:45:41

the reasons sometimes the I I don't do topical issue is because I've been told No action needs to be followed up on a topical issue and that's why I don't do it I mean it's well and good to have a debate are you say now that had had I put in my request for a safety audit that I could have got a follow up on that because that's a change in what the a topical issue was originally meant to be
topical issue topical issue Balls emotion doesn't involve a motion

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:46:04

evolves statements from each of the parties but we can call on the manager and ask him to commit to certain things and he can agree to do that in the course of the debate there will be no motion passed but we we can get follow-up action on it
thank you because I didn't think that could have their thanks
to Councillor

3 Correspondence

Item 3 correspondence from Monaghan Dani goals Lygo West
me

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 0:46:24

for Fingal on Wicklow County Council and are most per noting Councillor Barker and Councillor Jackson
item number 4

4 To confirm the minutes of the City Council Meeting held on 7th October 2019.

confirming the minutes of the October meeting can have a proposal that Councillor Flynn and Councillor Carnahan
is that agreed

5 To fill the vacancies on the following committees:

two that Item 5 to fill the vacancies on the following Committees the climate change and Environment S P C that was a vacancy for the Independent Group have we a nomination for that
I'd like to nominate Councillor Mannix Flynn okay
and new secondary yourself OK is that agreed
you're not at your only on one other SPC area OK OK

5 b) One vacancy to be filled on the Economic Development and Enterprise SPC following the resignation of Cllr Sophie Nicoullaud.

item be item be economic development and enterprise S. P. C. this is following the resignation of Councillor Mick Lord do the Green party of a nomination for that vacancy
Sir Nasa working
now urging do you want us to defer it

5 c) One vacancy to be filled on Dublin City Local Community Development Committee. (Independent)

item see a vacancy on the Dublin City LA LC DC
and this was I think for the Independent Group as well
yes thanks we will have two counts as a shared their position
one each periods
Councillor Napoleon Riley and Councillor Anthony Flinn

Cllr Cieran Perry, Ind. - 0:47:51

do you want to do it over the lifetime you mean of the LCD yet so those who will do first
O'Reilly for years and then are tuna okay thank you

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 0:48:01

is that a breed

6 Report No. 326/2019 of the Head of Finance (K. Quinn) - Monthly Local Fund Statement.

Item number 6 report Number 3 to 6 the monthly local funds statement can have a proposal that Councillor Jackson Councillor McGrattan
there
consolation Lord
Mayor just to question thanks for the report manager

Dermot Lacey Lab - 0:48:18

on page 117 reference is made to to point 2 million being paid over four void refurbishment wonder can a manager tell me two things one
what percentage it does not cover of devoid refurbishment effectively him any void we manage to
to deal with and you know alongside that I feel in reply to a question from a cancer tonight we are 483 voids given the discussion we are going to have later on about the large number of housing units it is absurd that we have five 483 or units that are nearly there but need refurbishment lying empty and what proposals are there to deal with with that and if we can seek further funding from Nemanja and second question is on page 119 it refers to a point 6 million being collected Nell P T in the equivalent period last year and now allocation this year now I'm presuming after some term accountancy line but maybe the manager could explain that thank you very much
thanks Councillor I see Councillor the
government can I just check

Cllr Criona Ni Dhalaigh, SF - 0:49:28

there seems to be an awful slowdown in the void turnaround
has there been a reduction in funding
or what has happened that that slowdown slowdown as happened it is noticeable particularly the choice-based lettings which was a really accelerated way of turning units around its nearly come to a standstill in some areas and under the there is that feeling within its flat complexes that there is just no movement on voids
Banks Councillor M Ali Councillor Alan Wright

Cllr Noeleen Reilly, Ind - 0:50:03

I pressed
I'll just Councillor Eileen back then Councillor Christy Burke

Cllr Christy Burke, Ind. - 0:50:09

thank you Lord Mayor I too am have noticed that there seems to be a reduction in funding in relation to some voids and I just like to ask the manager because the manager makes a very clear at any meetings that there is no problem with funding from the DOE but we're hearing on the ground is that there is problem with funding what I'd like to see Manager is that given the fact that we're in a crisis
when did our conversation ends I will continue thanks largest Council
expect you give me the protection of the Chair sorry I didn't hear anybody given sorry Councillor
but what I would like to propose I'd like to see maybe the manager will command on it tonight is that given the fact that in an emergency crisis of homelessness and housing between 10 thousand families in hotels and being bid you have sons and daughters on their mothers and grandparents sofas you have people 13 and 14 year on the Housing and transfer list why can't we provide funding to do up the voids right through the weekend's late at night and bring them so that we have a date Lord Mayor for the turn around because at this moment in time there are times Lord Mayor and I am sure you see it in your own constituency that it goes out the contract but maybe six months later it still empty now that's totally unacceptable so really and truly if we are serious about addressing the crisis of housing and homelessness were then let's either put up or shut up because it's not working otherwise
thanks Council Councillor Fitzpatrick

Cllr Mary Fitzpatrick F.F - 0:51:47

thanks Lord Mayor and thank you Manager for the report I have two questions Manager both relating to housing and the funding of housing the first one is on the voids as well huge frustration with seeing
any properties boarded up in Dublin Central and
so if I know that other councils have asked questions about that and I look forward to hearing the managers report but
I'm sick listening to the Minister tells us that there's no issue with money for housing
and then when we try to get secure money for housing and it appears that the money is only available for homeless services and temporary accommodation and that's just not good enough we need investment and money available for for long-term permanent homes but the other issue that has arisen recently and I've become aware of is that it appears despite what the Minister is saying that the budget that we have as a city council for retrofitting existing tenants' homes so that they are up to a modern and liveable standard in terms of insulation has dried up and the information I have is that the retrofitting programme that was taking place in camera and Phibsboro and throughout Dublin's Central has stopped now I have tenants Lord Mayor and they are living in homes that are covered in damp and mildew they have mushrooms growing on the insides of the walls of their homes it is unacceptable in this day and age that anybody would have to live in those conditions if we were a private landlord we would be all over the front pages of the newspapers and for the City Council and I appreciate the City Council is dependent on the Minister but only the other day I heard him again saying waxing lyrical about how much money he is making available for retrofitting for insulating social homes while he's not spending it in Dublin Central Lord Mayor and I'd like to know where the money is being spent and I'd like to know where the budget is and I'd also like the the whole programme recommenced because I have tenants who have been left with the job half done in the run-up to Christmas and it's really unfair on those families thank you Lord Mayor
for your council
early

Cllr Noeleen Reilly, Ind - 0:54:04

thank you Lord Mayor just my question is around the voids as well and I put in a Council question around this issue because my information had been that funds had dried up when we were having an issue returning around voids towards the latter part of this year and I know if you listen to the Minister he would give you the impression that he is funding Dublin City Council 100 percent of the voids and when in fact that's actually not the case and I don't even know after funding half the voids but we might get clarification on those figures were to have 483 units outstanding and 30 of them are over 12 months and 50 of them are between eight and 12 months is unacceptable and it shows that there is obviously some sort of issue with the void and I know that some of them can take longer than others but I think one of the biggest frustrations for anybody that's on the housing waiting list or anybody that might be in a hotel or B&B is when they see boarded-up units and particularly if they have seen them for a long period of time now I think
that I think the Minister is seldom prepare because he has consistently said that funding is not an issue
if funding is not an issue one of the easiest ways to get a home back in use this to turn around void it's not like we're building a new one so I think we just need some information as to what percentage of funding they are providing Dublin City Council thank you
thank you Councillor Ali Councillor Keith calmly thank you Lord Mayor just a question so I'm Andrew relational investments for the same

Cllr Keith Connolly F.F - 0:55:47

period last year investments was 87 million this year it is 43 million so what was the reason for the reduction of Mark Wynn investments do we hold a mature return on hours or think they can share the concerns of my colleague Councillor Mary Fitzpatrick relation to the retrofits for installation was a makes sense in the depths of winter going into the coldest months a year to stop installation programme for return in February and March when the weather improves the look announced from that as well please thank you
councillor Deirdre Heenan

Cllr Deirdre Heney, FF - 0:56:14

grandma guitarist there it's just in relation to the voids I raised it I think it was on the I think it was on the Budget information document that we got about two months ago
it just it never ceases to amaze me why we as a Local Authority don't get the money that it costs us to renovate and repair stock so that we can put it back in 2 circulation so it means that when we repair a dwelling
it's available to somebody on our housing list which means we're taking somebody off the housing list which means we're housing somebody are or taking somebody off the homeless list out of emergency accommodation which means or providing a house for an individual or an individual family so why can we not get the money from own Murphy to pay for the provision of those houses and I know I asked it on a previous occasion Lord Mayor and I would like to ask it again of the manager what efforts are we making to convince the the Minister for Housing own Murphy that
On the one hand he says there is no shortage of money to provide homes for people but yet on the other hand he's not willing and his Department is not willing to fund voids which is exactly that provide providing a home for somebody whose child is eating food from a cardboard box on the side of The Street Crowmarsh with hardware
for Coulson I won't react to the points in regard to the voices I

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 0:57:48

really think nowhere councils have already raised I would echo the point regarding the insulation programme and I think this is a degree of equity here as well we've successfully completed almost all of the boring one area with the insulation programme and the people there are able to speak about the benefits of it and the reduction in their bills as a result unfortunately we haven't been able to do that in the fingerless area and is a huge issue and while the teashop bay quip about climate change having its benefits of lower heating bills I can certainly tell them that the people in Finglas won't have lower heating bills as a result of the decision to stop the funding of the retrofitting programme and it's something Manager which we really need to address with the government
Andrew
Pulver thanks just in terms of the two questions not related to voice

Ms. Kathy Quinn - 0:58:36

that will raise their cancer lazy raise questions about the L P T values and I'm the 8 million it's just timing a that payments are paid in different monsoonal capture a there are cancer Connolly a asked questions as to why we had almost twice as much money investment last year as well as for old money issue that's the bottom line then we would have had more I'm invested then look more to that and it's been a question raised about what is the percentage that were funded for voice and its 45 percent so if we spend 100 units and avoid we've to have 100 you 100 euro to spend we will spend that and then we get 45 back but we have to have the 100 and Forest goes to pot up so 45 percent is the value I think Brendan is going to come in and terms of
45 preferred choice here is at 45 percent from most are 45 percent from the department

Dermot Lacey Lab - 0:59:23

Ms. Kathy Quinn - 0:59:25

is to clarify so if there was a programme of 100 euro we must have 100 year or in the first instance we have to spend to get it back we will spend 15 we will have to pay for 55 and we'll get 45 back where we have to have 200 in the first place to a to fund it
Brendan Kelly
poor programmes have been bought the retrofitting programme and avoid reputation problems have been very successful for the last two years

Brendan Kenny - 0:59:50

and I think we become far more efficient on it and we have a framework of contractors doing it the reality is by being efficient we've spent our budget we had for 2 thousand 19 it's gone was 18 million provides that spent the 45 percent that we get from the Department has spent also it's the same retrofitting programme so we're working and see how we can get funding to kickstart things again maybe take money from next year and without Department about that but there is definitely scope it on a more problems at the moment but I would hope it's only a temporary slowdown
as one question if I may Lord Mayor
councillor Alex for can I ask

Cllr Mannix Flynn, Ind. - 1:00:28

Manager in relation to the voids which has come up here in and the conditions in the fact that lower level how many on Dublin city council's housing list have been allocated those voids and odours initiatives are David a number of constituents who are waiting for these boys to be completed in terms of refurbishment can you give me an indication of how many of those voids have been allocated to people on our waiting to work to be completed on my walks to stack thank you because otherwise than that most people look at them Kintore does nobody going into those places panache effect in many cases I know that someone has been allocated and that this wave of them could you indicate to me and many of them are actually in this particular scenario thank you

Brendan Kenny - 1:01:07

councillor I don't have the number but would be a significant number of allocations are made well in advance and we just wait in front of work to complete it or for the family to get their furniture and 100 things radius or houses can be empty for a while Board allocation for the people actually move in and sometimes there are houses in certain areas and city Dervaig their private houses there are vacant and it can become fuels with our voice as well but certainly there is a slowdown at the moment but I'm hoping Tony just attempt to slow down we've also appointed a new Inspector and outside and Inspector South site to check out all voids because we were criticised in the past maybe for doing too much work so anything that can be done can be fixed up by your own maintenance operation we will sort that out and gave their long term wants to be done by contractors could you as you report women
Councillor Bill could you review
report lease as to how many people have been allocated these places we

Cllr Mannix Flynn, Ind. - 1:01:52

think
I think the fact that cancer are that Brendan Kennedy is answering

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:01:58

questions it means we strayed beyond the report the catchiest dealing with into the Housing report so can I just say that as any other further contribution on the housing that they will be raised under the Housing report is there any other questions for caddy for Cathy
if you could indicate on the list
so in relation to the investments question what kind of investments
will be looking at and what return to we get off that

Ms. Kathy Quinn - 1:02:23

typically we invest with the FA or KBC or under the commercial banks and not to give you you know just a glib answer but we get the best return we can guess they're not great returns and just to clarify for Councillor is that's not spare money that simply development contributions that were holding pending spending the capital programme so comes in and comes out we very rarely would have any investment on for any long time maybe a week might be a day I'd be a Monsell does it makes of Treasury Management Garner
councillor Tina MacVeigh further finance bigger various just

Cllr Tina MacVeigh, PBPA - 1:02:52

managers to clarify what you're saying then about
the about the
retrofits in relation to insulation that that has
completely stopped
as it because of the ran out of the budget
the total budget for 2 thousand 19 for 30 15 programme which has been

Brendan Kenny - 1:03:06

hugely successful is now spent for this year and we're working with Departments how we can get money forward from next year
I wonder if manager going
urgent there and I absolutely

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:03:17

colleague moments Councillor I just wonder rising when discussion I wonder if we could write to the Minister specifically on that issue of the of the retrofitting because I think it's hugely important issue right across our privacy
Manager you might play back the Minister his own interview and drive time in the other day where he specifically said that there was plenty of money available for retrofitting and insulating of social housing with the largest local authority in the country it is unacceptable that that programme was stopped now so yes Lord Mayor please take it up with the Minister

Cllr Mary Fitzpatrick F.F - 1:03:49

we have we will raise that directly with the Minister will move on to

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:03:52

the next item which is the

7 Report No. 339/2019 of the Chief Executive (O. Keegan) - Capital Programme 2020 to 2022.

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 1:03:56

item 8 report number 3 1 4 0 sorry Item 7 side report number 3 3 9 capital programme 20 20 20 22
grades can I have a proposal
for that Councillor Burke and Councillor Jackson
Councillor John Lines

Cllr John Lyons, Ind. - 1:04:13

we've emotional on the Clore number 25 I think would be appropriate to take that now in relation to this report
if required
regard to the capital budget can you indicate that the motion

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:04:25

this is not just a proposal to move the capital budget to December that's all that were taken

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 1:04:32

or they indicate that a number of your motion Councillor Lyons

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:04:41

and capital wonder if you could just indicate how you feel the to earnings if Councillor there we go

Cllr John Lyons, Ind. - 1:04:50

well the motion calls for the City Council to approach national governments to seek the central exchequer funding for this year's Capital budget to ensure that the Parnell Square cultural quarter actually proceeds as it was originally planned and was given permission in terms of and permission granted rather than the piecemeal proposals that unfortunately we've ended up with which caused him to huge question significant elements of the development so I do think it's important and there's an almost upon us to ensure that we secure that funding so that the entirety of the project which is a fantastic Civic project can proceed in its entirety
cancer I imagine

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:05:40

the items specifically relates to moving the meeting a and the reason for that is is there a manager wishes to engage further on the capital budget I imagine almost every Councillor in the Chamber would have a capital project which they would like which they would like discussed
could I could I ask I don't believe there's a link between the two
but and given that given that the report relates specifically to the moving of the meeting rather than discussing the money anyone topics but we would be happy to take the motion at that meeting but equally there's an opportunity to engage with the manager in advance of that and with all the Group leaders to do it because I think everyone shares the passion for the care package of water
councillor Donovan just the selected amount I'll call you in a second

Cllr John Lyons, Ind. - 1:06:24

that's fair Chair I agree with that and it's just too I think stressed the important the importance and urgency of the parallel cultural quarter and if the manager could say something and give us an update on where that exactly as asteroid now that would be appreciated to chair councillor
McDonald
grow Margot hardware well

Cllr Mícheál MacDonncha, S.F. - 1:06:44

take cash staggering group of Sinn Fein for intarsia
questionnaire and monitor them on in more on all this satiric
august took boiling
to allusion to gauntness arrogant
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more Kuche Lennon clan shock or cow goede main analogue so will need small all decided o Avon gauntness arrogant Shane Kane far Qatar guest
Augustin migration to the area earning
no
measure when you've got to come in on those two contributions

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:07:22

Mr Owen Keegan - 1:07:26

look I think we're all there's a shared commitment to the Parnell Square cultural Quarter development clearly we know we've had to respond to the absence of philanthropic funding but I've no doubt it will be in the Capital Programme be proposal to fund it and I'm very happy to confirm that as part of that I have written to the Minister looking for a meeting or look looking to return to the Minister for answering for million meaty
to raise the possibility of exchequer funding towards that very worthwhile project and I'm hoping you agree to a meeting
it would be nice if I could have that meeting before we presented the report to the December meeting
modern Lesh
to
screaming came forward make Aguirre on on Crinniu show a corporate need Nivea mid grey an armed on Ganol crinniú 20 small religion of Aberdeenshire
august I'm not just talking out to all of it as one of the project showed NI timesheet no comment
dulkin keen low now
august tufted gauntness arrogant so 20 small on task when can you know
arrogant all August vaquita
never Patricia
Councillor Lyons thanks for that manager just a point of clarification

Cllr John Lyons, Ind. - 1:08:45

you are seeking a meeting with the Minister to seek funding to commence the entirety of the project and not just the library element of the cultural Quarter is
no we don't want or whatever it administrative I've explained to the Minister that

Mr Owen Keegan - 1:08:55

put a proposal that for a phased approach to delivery of that project
and I think that's that was the reason for that but let us be very clear Phase 1 is going to cost 80 millions so it is not a you know I think that's a reasonable approach to adopt in the circumstances and I think it's one that is be
it's much more likely to City Council could go ahead with that project if we adopt a phased approach I am absolutely certain that we will develop the second phase in time but I think to go ahead with that project we've done we've come forward what I think a very workable phase 1 which is the vast majority of the project let's be clear I think that's represents a sensible approach to ensuring that ultimately we get the full project developed
because
I'll be we just need a bit more time to get the funding and funding proposals including proposals for a certain amount of borrowing which I think would be justified there are some major projects that were at a crucial stage now the the go ahead or we abandoned them and I think we just need a bit more time because you know I think if we had that time we can come up with solutions that will enable most manages to go ahead
tax volunteer Councillor
go back at the or their attacking

Cllr Naoise O'Muiri FG - 1:10:06

mates tolerate cancer lines or heave
Councillor Furnell logs and forbids engine as need Dolan needle campaign needed longer cat come out an urchin agenda Kennedy Wilson lesson and projects in as medical awry so faulty mermaids Taro taking bunch are or even on plan capital dare I mean Cottage inert identities 4th Earl and Countess raw eggs ambushes rapidly in the near Berlin often put on Bush Adela on target so just imagine Bannister Vatersay on tourists are fall doing as Lou Helou as fager amendment did not agree an era of the despot of Primark
councillor
Malik's Flynn thank you very much Lord Mayor thank you very much

Cllr Mannix Flynn, Ind. - 1:10:50

Manager for their response in relation to this I mean this is nothing short of an absolute disgrace does not facts about this I mean we were sold a pig in a poke in relation to Kennedy Wilson 10 and those that are going to pony up like an of 50 million euros Kennedy Wilson was given carte blanche talk about a vulture fund they were given carte blanche across this city carte blanche is what you were given in relation to this particular issue I will ask the manager to issue a full report that includes why Kennedy Wilson is not going to pony up the few bob I'd also like to remind people in this Council Chamber we don't have a library kept
crisis we have a housing crisis and I think this ban 50 or 80 million euros on a lorry that's unnecessary be wrong I also think it be absolutely wrong for Dublin City Council to allow those buildings that are up there in Parnell Square to avoid any form where there are people on our streets Councillors Patrick mentioned people eating food off the streets here I'd also like to remind people that those particular tranche of houses were given to the state where the Christian Brothers in lieu of cash on money that was meant to be for victims of sexual abuse and torture abused in the institutions so get all these facts right let's not get all grandiose about your idea that we need a new Central Library a cultural quarter the one down in Tampa party can hardly manage it's a disaster absolute disaster at the moment because again it's undermine it's easy to call Parnell Square a cultural quarter has plenty of entries up their toes rotunda towards the Gate theatre does poetry Ireland we need very very careful here about this particular project not only to pull it straight back into Dublin City Council and Howard entirely re-examined Lord Mayor this is an unnecessary product in terms of the kind of spending that kind of money and at the moment you've got people downstairs protest about our deputy gardens what they don't understand is
a place where we can actually house hundreds of people who are on our streets are choosing to go grandiose on a library project that's absolutely unnecessary particularly outrageous but I want I want Andy Wilson brought to account in this Council Chamber thank you very much indeed
because it can I remind you were on a report to move the capital budget and we agreed not to discuss and referred to Council as we

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:12:49

agreed not to discuss the car park while cultural quarter at this time in deference to other projects as well counsel costs lawyers have regard to the moving in the meeting
yes Lord Mayor

Joe Costello Lab - 1:13:00

I am rather pleased that we have were not proceeded with the rather grandiose project that was being proposed under
On Kennedy Wilson but I do think that the rest of the project
the parallel square one
that City Council has been proposing for the last couple of decades that that proceed and could the Minister also Councillor was just could the Minister Council has had to be fair I was very clear we were

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:13:29

we can't discuss all of the capital projects Councillor Lyons I helplines actually has a motion on the agenda and we agreed that where those I appeal say I appreciate your leaving it was a briefing earlier this year it was
another point to make it was the Chief Executive that raise the

Joe Costello Lab - 1:13:43

question of Parnell Square and I want to know how know how much we were putting forward sorry classical what Councillor Carter has a

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:13:51

question Councillor Atha has a question on the what the question is that

Joe Costello Lab - 1:13:54

the cost of the various capital projects that we are entering into far exceeds the resources we have now and as a result of that we have been delayed in bringing forward the capital programme now that really is a serious matter and I'd like some explanation for all of that
I mean this is that the Minister is so far out of line in relation to the provision of figures that to bridge the gap are as really possibility at all of us getting anywhere near the cost of the capital projects and the resources that are going to be available Manager
it's a simple statement of fact that we have a lot of projects at

Mr Owen Keegan - 1:14:33

various stages and a number of big projects are coming to fruition
when we look at all our resources between our own resources between development levies the likely traffic of exchequer funding or other resources there is there are difficult it doesn't add up so we're looking at other ways of funding and delivering these projects and that's that I think is entirely reasonable all we're looking for is a deferral of the three weeks to bring a more substantive
the report and also I think in fairness the Capital Budget report goes through on the nod because everybody so fed up with the revenue budget this will allow Members an opportunity to give it to type of consideration it deserves
at the end of the day it's a matter for the elected
members to decide what projects go ahead or what projects don't
Spicer OK we move on to the next item
sorry that's agreed
agreed

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:15:20

item number 8 report number 3 1 4

8 Report No. 314/2019 of the Assistant Chief Executive (R. Shakespeare) - Section 48 Development Contribution Scheme 2016-2020 - Indexation Increase.

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 1:15:24

Development contribution scheme 20 16 to 20 20 indexation increase I will just point out that this
outside Northern extra
That's OK so can I propose how we proceed with this debate or not opening list for the moment don't ask the manager to commit an

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:15:41

explained the report's lie her
just was like I'll take a proposer seconder for their report Moorse that we discuss it Councillor Jackson and Councillor Gagan OK now I'm going to ask the manager to come in and explain the reports and then I have an amendment from Council challenge horror and a number of other councillors I'll take that next and then we then we will will debate will debate the amendments will take the amendments none will vote on the on the reports
Richards

Mr Richard Shakespeare - 1:16:12

thank you Lord Mayor this is basically an annual exercise in indexing the development levies we've had over the as was the last number of years
you know we've taken a very benign view on the residential side of things
in terms of trying not to I suppose stymie any residential development
and that's why we have we tend to separated out and are only looking to levy the industrial and commercial side of things but if the Members wish no particular objection
if they want to raise on both
the residential and the industrial and commercial

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:16:56

OK with that with an explanation I want to take the I've got to take the amendment from Councillor Janet Horner you've two minutes
thank you very much Lord Mayor
so my

Cllr Janet Horner - 1:17:05

like I just confirm that the HMO amendment has been circulated
councillor No the amendment that we are proposing is that we would apply the raised do both industrial and commercial and residential developments so I mean it's a fairly simple logic we have a lot we need to be collecting revenue at the moment there is badly needed services in our communities and neither revenues and we giving allowing developers not to be paying their full Jews the city's is not the right way to be incentivising development we need to be collecting that money and we need to be applying it whereas badly needed as public investment that is needed at the moment are not
giving a break to developers in order to incentivise things so it's a fairly simple motion I'm hoping that everybody from their local area as well as I'm sure you're all now there's plenty where you are coming up events have been told that we don't have the money to invest in these areas why would we take this opportunity not to be collecting income that is all to the city
and the manager said he
he has no issue

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:18:11

with that both motion passing so I've got to proceed to the list Councillor James Gagan
thank thank you Lord Mayor

Cllr James Geoghegan F.G - 1:18:15

Lord Mayor can I ask the manager how he's changed his position so radically in the face of it looks like you know the 20 minutes that we've handed the sheet of paper where the report of the manager says given the shortage of affordable residential development it is imperative the City Council does not take any action that could impede the development of residential accommodation why are you now saying that this is grand and let's all go ahead because
my inclinations are that this will be a very dangerous move to increase the cost of housing and and were being asked to make this decision really on the fly doesn't seem like there's been any consideration except for the last 20 minutes when we were out of this piece of paper I think that's a really bad way for us to be making a decision in respect of the development of housing in this city which we as we all know is so crucial and there is such a shortage that is still required to be a burden on the idea that we're going to actually increase the cost of delivering housing and on this proposal of the Green party my inclination is that this is going to set a dangerous precedent and an shouldn't go ahead with this and I'd like to hear the managers responsible in that respect
councillor Michael pigeon
thank you very much

Cllr Michael Pidgeon G.P - 1:19:26

I support amendment simply on the basis that the amount of funds in question are relatively small I think if you look at for example the 70 metre 7 square metre unit you're talking about red 400 euro 100 100 metres that's bit easier the maths I for about 600 here I don't think that that's something which I think is likely to threaten much viability might have a slight impact in terms of profit but I don't think that's likely to have a huge huge impact and I think it's something where it's it's it's really worthwhile funds could be used for any number of purposes in the Council
councillor nissho Maria Lord Mayor we

Cllr Naoise O'Muiri FG - 1:20:01

give out about not enough housing being built not enough capacity that housing was then we're going to try to load the housing sector with a charge that isn't there at the moment and it's a once off
funding stream it's not a sustainable funding state stream its development levies which they are paid 1 so I don't support this and I think it's it's it's kind of
making policy on the hoof but this is a substantial change to the appropriate City Council which has been consistent so I can understand where the Green party are going as a funding stream but you know I think the case really has not been made for the thank you
councillor j Jimi

Cllr Deirdre Heney, FF - 1:20:37

guitar there and to the manager Minister Shakespeare it's just this in your in the third paragraph of your report
Manager you say the second part of it you say however given the shortage of affordable residential development it is imperative that the City Council does not take any action that could impede the development of residential accommodation accordingly I recommend that the six points 6 percent increase be applied to the industrial commercial development levy rate only are set out below what yet when the motion was read or I think anyway Manager when you read the motion that you're saying it isn't a huge amount of money so you'd be prepared to or you'd be happy correct me if I'm wrong you'd be happy enough to accept the Green Party's proposal I just wonder you know if it was in your thoughts when you are wishing the report that you didn't want to do anything that might scupper afford the residential development do you think that that paragraphs shouldn't have been put into the report or do you still believe that such an increase would scupper the provision of affordable residential development thanks over
Khalsa Dermot Lacey
Lord Mayor thank you three question

Dermot Lacey Lab - 1:21:52

for example would Manager be able to give an indication of the average increase that this would involve and a two-bedroom apartment on a 2 bedroom 3 bedroom house you know what increase in the cost the Executive the Manager could give us an indication as to end the next full review is An third question is to my colleagues in fina Gael
given the failure of the Department to fund local government properly to government to fund and Finney Gayle along with the rest of his desire to have extra services provided by this Council computer Gayle tell us any tax or charge or fee or levy that they would be prepared to support in order to provide the services that they constantly claim they want to provide because every expended every expenditure every expenditure has an area
that it requires an income and while we constantly hear in this Council from fina Gael and their allies in the far left is how do you spend money but never any proposals for how you raise it
thank you Councillor I see Councillor did Dalakhani

Cllr Donna Cooney G.P - 1:23:09

yet perhaps they think we have a sort of a never-ending magic part like that one that had the porridge and as you know and I just you know it keeps supplying money for for Dublin City Council but just you know we were at a loss in terms of money because of of policies of of fina Gael ministers when it comes to water rates globalisation and all sorts of things now we're down funds and this is a way you know this Is this may be small change in the hands of a developer but combined it's going to be and a small charge really for them very small change for them but in comparison to what it'll bring us it'll bring us revenue that we can do a lot with in Dublin City Council you know we're really at a point now that you know we're in a minus on it's only fair why should everything be on industrial and what we actually need more industry in the city's providing more jobs are very much locally and you know for the people that we that our housing and living in Dublin and this is purely on private housing and something that we can then bring to the public housing thank you
councillor

Cllr Criona Ni Dhalaigh, SF - 1:24:19

if you wish to speak out Neesham or you just press the booklets and frontier
o apologies Councillor Murray you can the select
their
Council currently Darling
emissions
mission
no just to say that
I was supportive of the of the report and then I saw the motion I was supportive of the motion and the manager doesn't seem to have a problem with what the motion but I just want to say if people are concerned that increasing the residential contribution will stop them building that was the exact same excuse that was given to us when we improved the standards in our apartment dwellings we are told that we improve proof Department Department standards that would be an unaffordable for the developers to build so we reduced our standards and guess what they're not building residential units to building student accommodation
thank you Councillor Gollop Councillor Paddy McCartin

Cllr Paddy McCartan FG - 1:25:14

thank you Lord marriages let me answer Councillor Lacey there to say the specifically on this issue we are voting in favour of the increase in industrial and commercial that's what we're dealing with
at the moment
but
my query Is there seems to be a volte fast from the manager I read that report at weekend we discussed it at our Group meeting we said that was reasonable and now this amendment has been placed before us so there was a specific recommendation from the manager which we were prepared to accept but given the reasons that as Councillor Gagan has outlined the any impediment to
the Housing delivery and anything that is going to
result in the increase housing costs we are not prepared to support that I would need more information from the manager specifically
on the details outlined before we can support it but at the moment we will not be in a position to support the
amendment in Councillor Cotton Councillor Pat on and then the final

Pat Dunne - 1:26:34

speaker Councillor J L Carter
thank you Lord Mayor and thank you to Councillors from the Green party for the amendment I will be supporting it
I'm supporting and on the basis that
if I had seen a witness Satala any indication that developers out there are going to start to build affordable housing in terms of the type of housing that normal people couldn't afford item I would be Aguán possibly against this amendment at this stage but I've witnessed in the past is build to Rent
mai major schemes shouldn't Aecon accommodation schemes so I think that in including this levy on residential is a good move at this stage it can be reviewed in the future if we see builders being a little bit more benevolent in terms of where they're going to build I doubt they will ever be benevolence and just the reply to damn at Lacy and his comments about us being allies with a with which when again Councillor Leadley where certainly not allies but fina Gael but we do have allies we have allies among the working class among the or the people of this city unlike the sell-out Labour party of the last number of years
Councillor Joe Costello

Joe Costello Lab - 1:27:50

thank you Lord Mayor of the Labour party I think Councillor Dunn is quite right I haven't seen much priority being given to residential accommodation by a lot of the developers certainly built rent and hotels and student accommodation are being prioritised so I don't see a problem with this particular proposal but could the manages one question to the manager could you give us an idea of what the into the income would be from the increase in both sectors in the industrial commercial and in the reserve residential if we accept the 6 percent 6 percent
increase proposal
number questions there further manager I had closed list guys after Councillor costs and I said it was the final speaker
I have two more Councillors I've got I've got to take the questions

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:28:38

but I have closed list now
Councillor Mary has a definite Flanagan
sorry I'll take you again Councillor Margaret Bates to Patrick yeah

Cllr Mary Fitzpatrick F.F - 1:28:50

thanks I just have two questions for the manager Manager when you
or when it is suggested now that we would apply it to residential can you advise us if there is any scope for us to apply it to certain types of residential developments so in particular I would be interested in knowing can we apply this extra tax to developments of residential co-living
there the build to Rent type models the investor type residential is there any scope for us to be specific on the type of residential properties that it will be applied to and secondly I've heard it asserted here tonight that whatever levies are raised an extra funds are raised can be ring-fenced and spent locally so I would like to know if that is the case if we start putting a tax on residential development in our areas will we have that money ring-fenced and will we have the discretion to spend it in our areas and if that's not the case manager can you please tell us where the money is going to go to thank you
final two speakers Councillor Deirdre Conroy and Councillor there are Declan Flanagan cause of cholera
thank you Lord Mayor

Cllr Deirdre Conroy F.F - 1:30:01

I just want to refer to what Councillor Pidgeon said that it's only 400 euros depending on the size of the House and in that regard when it comes to the developer being told you're going to have to pay an extra 400 euros it's quite likely they will add an extra thousand or 15 hundred to the charge on the house so I would like to know when somebody else said Well it's to do with
what the Council can provide for
citizens so if it would sit there should be something specific like a lot of housing
nowadays doesn't have waste bin
space outside their house with a should something there should be something very relevant as to what the charges for secondly the local property tax as I understand does not apply to houses that are built after 2 thousand 14 I am not absolutely sure of that but if that is the case then that is something that should be looked into if we are seeking more
funding thank you
close with Declan Flanagan

Cllr Declan Flanagan FG - 1:31:06

thanks Lord Mayor was most we see a lot of developers sitting on land banks and we hear a lot of reports about the cause of the huge success of course and actual building so really I think this would be taken as a as another reason
from the Bailiff developers as to whether or not to wide enough building as I say we've seen many reports documented on the Holocaust
of developments in the Republic as compared to Northern Ireland or UK etc thank you
I got a call the manager and then we put it to a vote thank you Lord

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:31:46

Mr Richard Shakespeare - 1:31:48

Mayor first and foremost just to confirm that I still favour my motion by resolution
and the comments there still stand but having said that p there are a number of questions and bearing in mind that we are doing a full review at the moment of the levies and a full review will be with you hopefully in January or February for consideration and that will
bring it right up-to-date
and so this is basically just as we don't lose any lose any ground from January the first
the average increase
I think as Councillor Pidgeon said depending on the square square metre ridge but if you're looking at an average two bedroom you're probably talking somewhere in the region of 5 to 600 euro but 80 square meters
and not theirs as the the full review will be with us in January and February
the
if you adopt this particular amendment it is probably worth somewhere between one and one and a half million based on our current annual income
on Development levies
and just to say that the 4 Dublin authorities are not acting in concert on this summer raising both submerges raising commercial
and then in terms of now the levies
we can't you can't break up its residential or its commercial you can't say it's this type of that type
and then in terms of we can't either guarantee to it's a city-wide levy scheme
we levies and then it is segregated out into five different use classes which you'll see the report in January February
everything from urban regeneration to community to roads to water
and the split across styles but that is a city-wide levy and so it funds city-wide projects
this has got nothing to do with the local property tax absolutely nothing to do with it so think Lord Mayor we put Councillor Janet

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:34:04

horrors motion seconded by Councillor Lapsa Hurricane to vote
if you please please proceed to vote
I felt like
are we happy everybody in
few people not voted there just
OK
yes
that
that men vote is closed and

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 1:34:54

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:35:03

so the decision of the Council is yes 41 in favour of the amendment now 14 against the amendment the amendment is can't carried can I put the report to the meeting is that a great
move onto the next item

9 Report No. 309/2019 of the Assistant Chief Executive (R. Shakespeare) - Proposed Variation to the City Development Plan 2016-2022 to incorporate the National Planning Framework (NPF) and the Regional Spatial Economic Strategy (RSES).

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 1:35:23

report Number 3 0 9 proposed variation to the City Development Plan after Corporate The National Planning Framework and the Regional Spatial economic strategy just to clarify on this this is a proposal to a need to initiate the variation or not adopting a variation can I propose are cancer Maccagnan Councillor Andy golly to care for our
open the list
Councillor Claire Byrne
it's great
there are either more than five people who had their hands up so they wish to speak on it so
Councillor Claire Byrne

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:36:08

no sorry Councillor Dermot Lacey thanks Lord Mayor Lord Mayor I know

Dermot Lacey Lab - 1:36:12

this is one of those document that really boring but really really important I don't have to question
one there's a number of additional costs imposed on the City Council through adopting this document manager
are if the Department giving any indication that they will give any extra funding to implement those and the second thing is we have to comply with directives from the National Transportation Authority the Office of the Planning regulator the Department and so forth if you're any requirement in law anywhere for any of those bodies to have to pay any heed to what we have to say we have to do what they tell us do they even have to listen to what we have to say thank you
charities
thank you I just wanted to ask is there any mechanism I suppose within

Overall - 1:37:05

this to be able to incorporate the other more localised plans like local drugs Task Force plans Local Area Partnership plans the children Young people Services Committee plans there's a lot of outside agencies the do an enormous amount of work in terms of research

Cllr Tara Deacy S.D - 1:37:21

and I think their engagement in the process would not only avoid duplication but I think it would be a better use of resources in terms of maybe identified some of the gaps as well I am conscious that maybe they're there may be some representation on it but is there any formal mechanism to to match their plans or incorporates some of their plans within within that structure
report 9
councillor Gill and

Cllr Alison Gilliland, Lab - 1:37:48

thank you very much
I attend its one of the meetings that Richard held with regard to going through their various
pieces of land that's in the proposal and I suppose I raised two issues and I'd like to raise them again tonight one is around the differentiate ation between the lands
that referral and you on the right report
sorry you on the correct report
sorry I beg your pardon report 9 sorry sorry wrong one
moment you're doing

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:38:27

I suppose cancellation we tend to be a rule taker as opposed to rule maker

Mr Richard Shakespeare - 1:38:29

and we get it from the centre down to us so
we generally don't get the opportunity to push it back on the centre
and we will no doubt we will make the case to get
extra funds that this brings on us
but we'll make the case and how that transpires I don't know Councillor DC just in terms of incorporating not really in this room but probably in the Development Plan review process in terms of adopting a new City Development Plan will be the place where you'll find a most most of the policy policy documents
will fall within the City Development Plan so not not as part of this particular variation
can I take too many of her most honest reply I've ever received a Dublin City Council we do over told

Dermot Lacey Lab - 1:39:24

that's motion 9 as had agreed

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:39:29

HMO ma report 10 Sergeant on the

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 1:39:34

ITEM 10 agree as

10 Report No. 311/2019 of the Assistant Chief Executive (R. Shakespeare) - Update on Industrial Lands Study and Proposed Draft Variation of Dublin City Development Plan 2016-2022.

item 10 report report number
3 11
regarding the update on industrial land study and proposed Raftery Variation of Dublin City Development Plan again this is a proposal to initiate a draft variation and have a proposer is Councillor Flanagan and Councillor Jackson
Manager I wonder just before it takes because can you just clarify was

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 1:40:04

for the difference between initiated the process and deciding on it

Mr Richard Shakespeare - 1:40:11

and the process ahead OK so what we're proposing which we're basically advising the City Council that we will be going out to public consultation probably within the next month
will commence that process it's a four week public consultation process so we're hoping to have that the public consultation done and dusted for Christmas
will then compile all the various submissions and then make a recommendation to the City Council
based on the submissions received
to vary the City Development Plan which as you all know is a function reserved to the elected Members
so we're all I'm doing is advising you that we're initiating
and we had we held some workshops
to advise people device that the Members of this and the processes involved
so you know that's why I suppose about it as part of their Council Tax bill
go Margot

Cllr Daithí Doolan, SF - 1:41:07

Touadéra this is why I think a very very important report
I think it's its technical but it is important to something that I've been following for the last few years not welcome that every step of the way because it is recently industrial land to make it available for residential homes which is all essential particularly the area I live in representing Valley Farm and Drimnin along the Lewes line where when I was first elected in 2 thousand and 4 we were commissioned reports into their lands along layer which were mainly
car sales rooms etc had very little rates for the city very low employment in the area and now I think we've moved on in the intervening years actually re-zoning so many those lands to ensure that there are developed for housing and I welcome that but in saying
toward Vieira I've also have to be concerned
that it is essential that while we do resolve these lands at Dublin City Council are central to the future of those lands this in no way should be seen as some sort of carpetbaggers paradise where we read on the land its hand it's in private ownership and is developed no any consultation or concern for local communities for Dublin City Council or for the City Development Plan we need to make sure that whatever homes are built there are of good quality abide by the planning process have services central to their delivery communities are consulted with an and it was all important that we have social and affordable housing council and affordable housing needs to be part of any future development those lands and to ensure that that would be a disaster for the community we've had to live with some of those monstrosities along the canal where some of the plans for apartments site or over 1 thousand units that that is
putting a huge strain on local services is not in any way contributing to a solution for the House for the housing crisis it can leapfrog over those developments can leapfrog over the planning process straight into the arms of on Bord Pleanala we're ignored every step of the way we become spectators in their own communities and that unacceptable so all I welcome the support I welcome the reasoning we need to make sure and have guarantees that we are protectors of that land and guidance to ensure its sustainable development rather than simply bank rolling millionaire developers Glamorgan
I have a list of speakers Council Dalakhani

Cllr Donna Cooney G.P - 1:43:29

thank you admirer just yeah obviously I welcome the that industrial lands that are just being left derelict that housing would go on it but I suppose in a sense I feel as at a certain concern about people being rewarded when I read through the report and I saw the Lanzer vacant disrepair derelict
that the landowners are now you know basically have a windfall
and that they will benefit you know from their lands be in no zoned in into
housing and since you know we weren't able to get a windfall
legislation through so that those involved tax the will be you know little benefit to the community there so I'm just want to ask the manager is there any way that we can negotiate those lands for public housing at least to present each other because we're very short on land
you know to fulfil our or are proposed so is there anything we can do and afterwards you know because obviously you know big we can't because of the the Kenny we can't
purchase that land
you know
prior to resolving the matter and that's possible under the existing legislation but said this government were to fall and there was a new government and the new legislation in and they made it possible for us to compulsory purchase this derelict land in order to provide housing
you know it because we've initiate this would it affect that that's basically my question I wanted to ask thank you
Councillor Anthony Connaghan can I just remind Councillors were just

Cllr Anthony Connaghan, SF - 1:45:05

initiating the process at this stage Councillor Colin my God I fairer am just to pay tribute to the plan and staff were attended one of the means an awful lot of work goes into a
diary and sorry he raised about points that I was going to say they're but just to point out to the manager at Item 5 there the addresses Dublin 11 wickets down after Mile Oak Road and it's all Twitter apart airport if designed development levies they want to stand up to Level 3 of 3
that was a contribution welcome Councillor Khan
Councillor Alison Gilliland

Cllr Alison Gilliland, Lab - 1:45:39

I don't think we would be sending them up to Anthony doing
Just to questions and thanked Richard for they the workshops that you do organ organise and it's exactly what cancer Kearney said in cancer De Doolan's that it's about us
proposing that these are are reason that they are reasons and then it leaves it open to whoever owns them to develop it and I do think there should be a mechanism through which we could partner with a collabo race with are at least open a conversation with the owners of those sites to develop la residential units on them because they may or may not be in a position to do that the other distinction I'd like to make seen on they report is a distinction between those sites that are in private ownership and those that are in state ownership because I think if their in-state ownership than we have there's an onus on us relates to get to grips with that and use them for public housing on public land thank you
thank you Councillor Golton and Councillor
wretched bottom
thank you

Cllr Racheal Batten F.F - 1:46:45

I just like to ask the manager in relation to the time period that he proposes it seems very short especially considering the time of year in which the proposal is opting we're going into the Christmas season and it doesn't allow a whole Palatine for observations or interactions by residents in relation to these areas so just like some clarification on what the rationale is there will be timing and why it's been chosen at this time of the year thank you
councillor Carol Parry

Cllr Cieran Perry, Ind. - 1:47:19

planks hard vote will be held the brief and we just want to support what Councillor Dune has said the majority of these sites are in private ownership so we resolve them will on their worldly increase the value and I think we should learn lessons from previous experience of rezoned land that went on to boat be an imposition on the local community and that Boyle making vast profits for developers at the same time there has to be some method of influencing these types of developments and to support what Councillor Gilliland has said we should
definitely progress the stay owned lands on the list the rest I would need commitment that there is some way of influenced what's proposed before I could support recently in government
councillor j tahini

Cllr Deirdre Heney, FF - 1:48:10

fair
yet the reporters is asking us to give the go ahead for the initiation of a variation of the development plan which is OK but own Murphy has seen fit to rubbish our Development Plan
in terms of height and density
so
judging on what type of Lands if you go through the managers report judging on what type of Lands you're talking about re-zoning for development of residential from from Z 6 and 0 9 7 or you're going to have a serious job on your hands manager when it comes to passing reasonings in this city council chamber because of Warren Murphy has done to our Development Plan in terms of height and density I wonder could you Manager for my benefit to find brownfield land because my understanding of brownfield lands is basically whether totally on Service land so maybe you could you could clarify that for me the third point I want to raise is the re-zoning from Z 6 and Z 77 10 and my sorry Chair
the definition of Z 10 is to consolidate and facilitate the development of inner city and inner suburban sites for mixed uses with residential the predominant use in suburban locations office retail and residential predominantly resilient users in inner city areas now at our local Area Committee we recently have to strategic housing development planning applications for the Clongriffin North Fringe part of our constituency there talking about building 15 hundred residential units and there is little or no provision and that's in Azad that as far as I'm concerned as far as I know that's a Z warn completely said one zoning for the bill for the for the Clongriffin Balmain nor fringe area where this planning applications refer and there is nothing in as manager to I suppose open up those huge areas of development for a global company that would retain people in there is create employment in those areas instead of using ice Evo's the limited transports that are available to us to get from Balmain into the city centre so I suppose I have a question mark around that and I think it's something that we need to make sure people are aware of and last can you please please please Lord Mayor last but at least we agreed Councillors in this Chamber we agreed to resign a site on the Cheever site and Cool UK on the basis of discussions we had with a developer that he would adhere to heights
let me in trouble with the police now when he got us to resolve the land and he submitted a planning application for a heights which is much higher councillor at agree to pilot a reversal
councillor Mary Freehill

Cllr Mary Freehill, Lab - 1:51:15

thank you very much Lord Mayor I know that this Council is full of good intentions in relation to this proposal but I have some reservations about it it's it's a very very long list
come before to us before us for the first time I think it would make an awful lot of sense if in fact all if these went to the local area committees where people actually know the geographical areas these are pretty much old sites in private ownership we've got to know and I just give you an example Greenmount industrial estate that was presented strangely out about the third
set of proposals it didn't come in on the first which is all very strange when we were
reviewing the Development
Plan
and eight weeks ago
I asked I wasn't aware that this was coming up I asked for this file and I was told by the planning department that you have no fine on the Greenmount Industrial Estate so I'm beginning to wonder where then if that's the case eight weeks ago that this cannot come before us
the other point is that in relation to the Greenmount industrial estate when we were reviewing the plan we have consistently asked for a local area plan to be done in the hallcross area because this is a site that is fairly where landlords are not very accessible at all it's actually a side full of small workshops more than very big industrial estate in the sense so it's kind of offering
services locally to talk to people so quite frankly I really wonder about our sending all of this out now without each area actually each Area Committee should be able to examine
these applications first before it comes before the City Council and where we can decide to consider to review the plan and I formally propose that at the moment and I think that would be a better way around it
the list is extraordinarily long where it's coming from I'm not sure but I think every local area committee should actually have an opportunity to examine each site in the area and that would be a much better way to do it and I'm still wondering and Manager I would be delighted to come back to me as to why something could be on the agenda day when you're Department tells me you don't have a 5 dollars this is the second time the Council for this Council
thank you Councillor Councillor Larry O'Toole thank you Lord Mayor

Larry O'Toole SF - 1:53:47

Lord Mayor to incidents in the last year I suppose of two two large areas the jam factory on the pain factory
in the first case
I am on record of the meeting Ramirez Tories on forced on that I didn't trust and others and I was proven right he came at this lovely package and then lo and behold me when we resolved because we're in a buoyant we need homes we have to resolve an industrial land but he came back with something that wasn't recognisable at all of what he promised us
the other guy at least was of front it told us it is just going to build
very much on affordable
apartments where the Department for Communities gone so I'm very reluctant to support any any of this but there were some some Councillors here have
mentioned this without some deep very deep
negotiations with of conversations and could I suggest could I maybe suggests that see each of these sites are run money heavy 20 but each adults should be treated almost like a Local Area Plan a small local area plan before we can even consider consider re-zoning days because once bitten twice shy that's my motto Lord Mayor of armagost
councillor Green in needlework

Cllr Criona Ni Dhalaigh, SF - 1:55:21

care market and just to reiterate what Alison said as well about just getting the breakdown in the private and the
the private and state ownership that'll be interesting to see and I'm also really reluctant to compensate and land hoarders and people who and landlord to a very negligence of the of the land that they owned it one of the things could we get a definition
residential to me is for families but in under this I am worried that yet again all of the residential will be taken up with maybe
student accommodation
build-to-let which we need in places but the standards are so low so my main concern is that the residential will be an influx of Forder student accommodation and co-living units thank you
party Councillor Councillor George
online
thanks Lord Mayor Forest needs to support the proposal from Councillor Gill and

Cllr John Lyons, Ind. - 1:56:17

I don't think we can allow this go out to public consultation without having it amended to include the ownership of the sites I think that's hugely important
to know whether there in private ownership or state ownership so for example the shin own lands and century
where parents live nearby and it's a huge site next to the sound regardless nation so for instance that's obviously own I'm assuming by an Garda Síochána so we need to know
the current ownership of all of these sites and I would also agree with the proposal does
these need to be brought to the Area Committee for formal discussion
and my we need to also have a discussion through this process as to how does it happen
where we have
sites in private ownership
and we potentially rezoned land thus increasing the value exponentially how do we ensure that we see a sensible developments arise on that site because it has been mentioned and we've been sold a pup we know that the Chivas citing Kew Locke the former Jam Factory lying idle for 20 odd years derelicts the nice or we knew how to be resolved residential we notice so we did the right thing we're in a housing crisis and then where superseded by national government legislation the High guidelines can we in under developer shamefully the Gillick brothers of plattner land Lindemann Ltd went ahead and put in an application for twice the heights that they promised us an increased density is also so how is it what do we have I think we need to learn lessons from being burnt in the past and I think a lot of us feel very warned about a particular instance in relation that shivers how do we ensure that the re-zoning process that we can actually have conditions segment of conditionality included to ensure that we do which either coins residential developments we want to see on these sites so I'd like the manager to address those issues thanking
so Khalsa Malik's fled thank you very much

Cllr Mannix Flynn, Ind. - 1:58:22

I think this is the most significant document we have ever had before this Council certainly in my time it is an extraordinary document indeed
just going back about being duped we were duped on the student accommodation when we were told that are to be allowed student accommodation in the levels that we have that all of these students that were living in houses that they have leave those houses and that they would come back to those who are homeless and those who need them equally we were told when the big fanfare in relation to the cultural quarter of Parnell when they launched that when we were told that this was a done deal and it was all fantastic and we were duped there however this is a very significant document and as soon as we actually agree this is a lot of land is going to change hands but don't forget that when it comes back before us we have the opportunity to either accept this amendment or reject this amendment I would ask that we would support this document in its present state and that in relation to cancelling Alison Gilliland that we will actually incorporate when it comes back in that the management would supply us with all of that information in relation to Woodlands to stay owns and woodlands are marked out private and what kind of books that are in I think Councillor Gollick makes an excellent point in relation to what actually is residential we were told a student accommodation was residential generally mean there was a whole issue in there so we need to define these particular areas I would encourage every single Councillor as an individual and as a group to make a submission in relation to this particular plan so it was that we know and I would also ask people to inform the local residents in relation to it but I think it's a most significant very very significant document not a light document by any means whatsoever and again at the end of the day we don't want to end up on this issue where these lands are going to get speculated I also think it's really important that we make Councillors my Lord Mayor that we need to put a time frame on this that these lands have to be developed in this amount of time the same way as they give planning permissions that this variation
only lasts
for a
number of years and then it's gone that's where it's going to change the dynamics and that we can ensure proper development and proper housing thank you very much indeed
councillor Joe Costello

Joe Costello Lab - 2:00:25

Just to remind Members we have to move to motions at half
eight
Elsa costume thank you Lord Mayor what I wanted to complement the manager on the work that he has done on this
I think as
Councillor Finnigan said this is an extraordinary important document because it identifies a lot of the industrial land that is around the city and we've always been complained about sufficient land to build on in the city
but there is a whole variety of industrial estates and industrial sites some are underutilised somewhere
utilised to a degree similar small small large that were built a lot of them were produced by the state in the nineteen fiftys so a lot of this estate land as well as private land and I do think we need to go into them a greater degree of examination on this land stolen from that point of view I would be in favour of Councillor Freehills motion and I would second the motion that it should go before the Area Committees because if you look at 7 place you have a small industrial estate in Dublin one you look at Glasnevin you have a large industrial estate in Dublin 11 and the two of them are hugely different in relation to the type of whether the mixed development residential development or what would you use on that particular site but this is an enormous landbank that we can use to our advantage and I would certainly like to see the breakdown of state lands on a private lands but there's a lot of other work that I think needs to be done and in the first instance I believe there should be brought before the Area Committee for discussion thank you
Councillor Ray McAdam

Cllr Ray Mc Adam FG - 2:02:01

thank you Lord Mayor firstly can I commend Deirdre Scully and John O'Hara for the work that was done and to be supportive are to clarify the situation for some colleagues there was a number of notifications issued by sharing BT and general hirer separately across September inviting all of us members to to attend workshops in respect of Nork sites sites and Southside sites and then there was a 30 minute that detailed full workshop where all 20 sites was provided it wasn't just a 20 minute set down and scarper it was actually to two and a half hour meeting each individual site was gone through in Tahrir detail cancer galanin Councillor Khan and others asked pertinent questions into and I think some of the issues that have been taken question raised then have been taken on board here and so I do not see under any circumstances why this has to go back out to the Area Committees secondly nor should we be deferring this any further we're asking the public for their considerations and their opinions we will have the decision ourselves some time in January or February to make a decision whether we want to remarry the land that was only his or not get on with the bloody thing and let's do it then and the other thing to say demand the report Councillor costs look deals with 20 sites it doesn't deal with the large land bikes in Glasnevin they are going to have to be done on a separate basis we need to distinguish between the two thanks Lord Mayor Morocco
sense Councillor McAdam Councillor Danny Byrne

Cllr Danny Byrne F.G - 2:03:28

thank you Lord Mayor sorry but can I go into slightly against that sentiment I think I agree with Councillor Freehill that it should go to the Local Area Committee
as a new Councillor I think it's really important and like I said I agree with Councillor Freehill and Councillor costs lower than it should go
I bow to
experience and I also bow to local knowledge and that's what you have on the local committee as local knowledge and I'd also like to say 2 Councillor Willacy and Councillor Dunn the do not have a monopoly on the working class Finney Gale is a broad party we represent everybody and I dare say we represent them with distinction
thank you
Councillors Councillor Noelene Riley aim yet

Cllr Noeleen Reilly, Ind - 2:04:25

Just except those on the housing and homelessness but
I just think this should go out I support it going out
because I think the alternative is that were that there is land being under-utilised there so that doesn't suit anybody either so
it should go out for public consultation and then we'll have
probably a more fuller debate on it in January or February when it comes back Kawsar Piratpartiet koslow
I'll keep this very brief

Cllr Patrick Costello, GP - 2:04:53

a lot of people have mentioned the the profits that come from rezoning and we did in the past
have a windfall tax an 80 percent tax on
the profits of re-zoning
it was introduced by the Green party
when they are in government and I'm sitting here just reading up on looking back on it and I have found a opinion piece by that well-known socialist Lucinda Creighton calling for the reintroduction of this and saying that
fina Gael were wrong to remove this tax so I'd asked the man due to raise this in his motion in his meetings with the the
the Minister or perhaps write to the Minister because I think the ring the windfall tax could help a lot of the issues that have been raised as serious concerns by Councillors here and this is an issue for Dublin City Yes but it's an issue for all our significant urban centres here
thank you Councillors cancer-free we've concluded debate I think you've spoken on what I thought I was just
going to say

Cllr Mary Freehill, Lab - 2:05:51

councillor Freehill I think I think I think you've had your I think you've had your response over the Chamber can I can I just say can I

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:06:00

just say counsellors it is always a good opportunity for County Council freely I haven't call on you can you please the selector button thank you it is always a good idea to hear from the public on these matters as Councillor McCallum says we will have plenty of opportunity to discuss this my view is that we hear from the public and then we make our view views Manager and then we move on

Mr Richard Shakespeare - 2:06:23

thank you Lord Mayor I don't intend to go through it and details of what I would well whatever like suggest to facilitate sort of the middle ground is that we put it out on time
and we will discuss we might hold a few more workshops for councillors and need to say it's absolutely disappointing from my staff when very few counsellors show up and then I sit here listening to complaints of not being informed and all the bits and pieces so you know the main I I would fully support
Lord Mayor
Lord Mayor can I propose that collectively make their reports Chairs that agree on their point of order on

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:07:07

a point of order he can't talk to us
like that that's a disgrace to be talked to address most like that as

Cllr John Lyons, Ind. - 2:07:15

an utter disgrace some people have other commitments and can't attend
Yarranton Councillor Lyons that you and your
source like that retractable due to set their Castle Cottage data
we move all your plants item that
cheeky
talking to us cows data data we move on to the next item which take

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 2:07:37

sorry apology apologies collapse of quite a chamber guys the motion that
proposal from me that it goes rotten second systems

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:07:43

House are free I see that you have wished to make a point of order would you like to make it

Cllr Mary Freehill, Lab - 2:07:51

I have already pushed proposes that these go to the local area meetings
but I have a seconder for proposal was seconded by Councillor Executive can I put that to a house
but
safely

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:08:05

Council failed the manager the manager suggested the managers say Council for can we allow Council rail here my point Councillor the manager suggests that it will go out to public consultation and also to the Area Committee at the same time would you facilitate that
to note that first
acceptable

Joe Costello Lab - 2:08:25

Cllr Mary Freehill, Lab - 2:08:27

sorry
Members stuff sites
members council McAdam Council McAdam

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:08:37

members please I know it's going to be heated meeting but can we please Kirby members of asking for your attention
councillor Freehill has put a proposal it's been seconded by Councillor koslow I'm going to put it to a vote on the matter she is not happy with the manager's position I have to put it to vote on which I have no option

Mr Owen Keegan - 2:08:59

just to be clear the power to negotiate a variation is an executive function
what I'm proposing to do is that we would organise a series of briefings on an area on an area basis and
at the same time I will exercise
my prerogative of putting the NSA and the variation

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:09:16

that resolves the matter and I move on to the next item deirdre
item two Chairs of number can we address the issue please

Ms. Deirdre NiRaghallaigh - 2:09:25

Cllr John Lyons, Ind. - 2:09:29

chair can I is a serious issue Chair where with your indulgence for one moment okay I've read all the reports related to those two workshops that took place I could attend neither one of them for four commitments that prior commitments and I had to keep okay well on top of the issues I asked three questions he didn't address them I didn't pick you up on that deny and then you come and talk to us as if you're some kind of teacher talking to allow the primary school pupils so I'm asking you refer to retract what you just said right at the end of your
cancer there was no offence meant so I am quite happy to retract what

Mr Richard Shakespeare - 2:09:59

I said but it is very frustrating for me and my staff to arrange meetings and then to have poor attendance and yes some people can't attend but you know what in and I'm speaking in the general sense it is really disappointing for
the two people involved who were doing it OK poor show thank you about it I've got to move on to the next item can I propose smokehouses can

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:10:25

I propose that is now a 28 in two minutes time were obliged under Standing orders to move to the first two items on the agenda
set
never get there because
I have asked Councillor Doolan and Councillor Healy who have the to first motions and they have agreed that they would agree to the suspension of Standing orders can I propose the suspension of Standing orders to had agreed
OK we will now move to Item 11 on the on the agenda as agreed at the Group leaders meeting that
I was going to the area

11 Report No. 337/2019 of the Assistant Chief Executive (B. Kenny) - Housing Land Initiative - O`Devaney Gardens.

as agreed at the Group leaders meeting we're going to propose that will have a contribution from the manager and that we will have the group system to be clear the group system is two minutes counsellors can we two minutes from each speaker each party in order of size and then one minute for all other contributions as agreed so I'm going to ask for the managers contribution first two per clarification the latest Addendum or addendum to the report is in front of all councils to this Council to have that yep OK manager

Mr Brendan Kenny - 2:11:34

thank you Lord Mayor
as you know where it is a report on the agenda tonight
that's goes into detail of what is proposed for O'Devaney Gardens and is also
the report which is seeking the approval of the Council or section when a treat or dispose of that title in the land to the developer in order for them to get to financing in order to get the kind of wish to make it happen
since the last meeting we have had some communication with the developer and the developer has indicated that he is willing to sell
percentage of two private units to an improved housing body
we did circulated a report to Council this afternoon I just want to apologise some typing error as I was in that the figure was 23 released 47
the developer day the disposal is celebrating which appears to be human process and that is the Development Agreement is based on
to present private 20 percent social and 20 percent affordable so if if if there was a from batteries to be followed through it has to be a separate arrangement separate agreement between the developer and approved housing body is would be a challenge for report I was invited to develop constraints on this site but we're happy to work with it
I wasn't body are maybe accommodation are punishable who don't bodies to make it happen so really it's now a matter for City Councils to approve or not approve this

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:13:09

councils are going to take the groups that are could I ask us we are supposed to be a little bit boisterous that I could I just ask that people be allowed make their contribution without being slagged off by other sides of the Chamber everyone will get their say we'll get to the bottom and everyone will have their vote so we can proceed with that order I move to the first group on the system Fina fall Councillor Mary Fitzpatrick

Cllr Mary Fitzpatrick F.F - 2:13:32

thank you Lord Mayor and thank you manager to you and your scouter I
just got to clarify were taking 12 11 and 12 A to gather that the
proposed disposal and also the manager's reports just to clarify they both deal with the same issue Sir restart again Councillor Mary Fitzpatrick
an eye on the clock I'm on the clock thank you Lord Mayor I want to thank the manager and his staff for all the work that they have done
to bring forward proposals on O'Devaney Gardens
really torn on this issue
in my 15 years of public representation
I never imagined that the housing crisis would get as bad as it is and from when I was first elected in 2 thousand and 4 O'Devaney Gardens has been spoken about as a place that can provide homes for people in my constituency but the need is greater now than I could ever have imagined the Minister
is beyond out of touch he is dangerously out of touch it is so frustrating and annoying to hear him speak about there being no issue with money that it is complicated that it takes time that is dangerous the way he speaks about his policies for housing because his policies for housing have failed they failed this city they failed our constituents and its unacceptable what we have tonight before us is a decision to make are we prepared to deal with an imperfect situation and try and deliver homes for working people in Dublin City are we prepared to deliver 824 homes exactly of those homes 274 of them will be social homes they will be 274 applicants from the social housing list 274 homes for people that will be provided under an affordable rental scheme 165 homes that will be provided as an affordable purchase and 165 homes for people who are lucky enough to be able to go and buy them on the private
Lord Mayor this is not a perfect deal but it gives us three million in community funds it gives us a social employment and apprenticeship policy it gives us a cap of 310 thousand on the affordable purchase price which means couples couples earning a combined income 0 thousand will be able to afford another
councillor Nasa working from the Green party
thank you wear
O'Devaney Gardens is just down the road from where I live and I have

Cllr Neasa Hourigan G.P - 2:16:23

watched it fall into dereliction over the last 10 years while all around me my friends and my neighbours are being pushed into homelessness the amended report offers 80 percent social and affordable units that 659 units the original Devaney was 272
is this my preferred way to deliver housing in the state absolutely not the current situation as a result of government policy the believes almost exclusively in private provision of housing if be going now we would be the procurement method would be for 100 percent public housing on the site it's worth remembering that this is a neighbourhood not just for the next five years but for the next 50 and 100 when built over 60 percent of the people living there will be on some sort of affordable rental scheme and there will be the more they will be the most vulnerable people in our him in my area in my constituency the streets and public spaces will all be community owned facilities and they will all be in public ownership we deferred the vote last months to try our hardest to find an improvement or an alternative to this deal
there were alternatives but to make them happen will require a different housing minister and a different government it's worth saying that the project has already begun with 56 of the social housing units
started and that will see families and individuals moving into the site in the coming year I am not prepared to play idea logical Russian roulette with this site I am not prepared to see those families left on a derelict site for the next two four or six years
this is a proposal that will produce a good neighbourhood to live in the long term and not an empty wasteland while we wait for the perfect conditions to arise
thank you Councillor Harkin
councillor

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:18:02

Kieran Perry on behalf of the Independent Group
I saw a very

Cllr Cieran Perry, Ind. - 2:18:07

short-sighted just like to acknowledge the fantastic campaign to keep the Devaney lands in public ownership by build on social and affordable rent on the SCI the campaign to retain the lands has really caught the public attention as can be seen with a number of e-mails and representations we have all received in particular the local community have engaged in the debate on that must be really welcomed I'm not going to repeat the Pacific arguments to the SCI but I will say that this is a really bad deal for the Council really bad deal for the taxpayer and most importantly a really bad deal of those for those suffering the housing crisis the homeless families the families on the housing list people paying exorbitant rents and those living at home who can't afford a mortgage we have described the plan as a giveaway of public lands and the more we see the plan the more I'm convinced that is an actual giveaway with millions in government and Council subsidies and minimal community facilities provided by the developer the new proposal which incidentally was conceived at a secret meeting excluding a significant amount of councillors is in my opinion even worse than the previous we give we give the land to the developer pay for the infrastructure
don't charge them development levies and then boy back Torquay percent of market rates or prop over
million
where is that money going to come from we're told us no money where is that money going to come from how will the 30 percent affordable be actually affordable if it's based on what we're paying for them
are we looking for further government subvention all these questions have been answered on the documents I would arrived on my desk this evening absolutely scandalous I'd like to tackle the argument that there is no alternative if this proposal fails there is an alternative it's the exact same model that government and the Council agreed to for St Michael's it's a fully costed proposals and the details are currently under discussion we simply want a Northside version of what they're getting in ensure core is that too much to ask as part of a bigger picture affordable rental offers not just a solution to the O'Devaney issue are the Oscar trainer issue we're offers a solution to our never end and housing crisis apart from providing sustainable mixed income housing for those who can't afford to buy a house or those who choose not to buy affordable rental will drive down rents in the private sector and 5 thousand houses house prices to a win win situation for everyone except the developers this vote is probably the most important vote I've ever taken you know 10 years as a councillor or precedent separate this vote today able to retain public lands for public housing or continue the privatised allowance while you can also now call on Councillor no I am vote against this give away
I now call on Councillor Ray McAdam
On behalf of my myself in the Finaghy colleagues want to offer our

Cllr Ray Mc Adam FG - 2:21:08

condolences to Brendan and his family on their recent bereavement Lord Mayor four weeks ago I and my Finaghy L colleagues were prepared to endorse the draft Development Agreement that would set the parameters for the redevelopment of the Avenue Gardens lands and therefore would therefore support a section when A3 proposal why three reasons locally I sought a mandate in his local elections on a platform that included delivering new and better homes now Daphne through the land use initiative and for our Group because we didn't believe the alternative stock stacked up
we believe last month's deferral owed more to political posturing and the placing of more importance and chains than cranes that had me in a did to any meaningful objection to the building of homes in O'Devaney and we have seen that tonight for the contributions from Members opposite indeed some argued that they couldn't support the deal because it would be a represent a significant transfer of wealth for the private sector if you follow that logic true those parties are now endorsing a significant transfer of wealth the taxpayer to private developers the price of the proposal
before us
sees 824 homes being delivered on O'Devaney Gardens lands I and my colleagues in the finagle benches want to ensure that happens but we have concerns over the certainty over funding for the cost rental proposal therefore we would like clarity on four points one has an approved housing body being selected by the agreement parties in the Executive to has a firm sale price per unit being agreed to as part of the New Deal what is it and if so has the Department been advised that the proposed cost 3 what engagement has been hard that the Irish Council of social housing with regards the impact of the 20 18 Eurostar ruling on HBs and has the Housing and Finance Agency being engage with I ask these questions not to be
obstructive but to be constructed and I want my colleagues opposite to acknowledge that that's why myself my Finaghy colleagues will not be adopting the populist approach of proud following that Sinn Fein has entered into recent weeks Councillor Darren himself said of the 20 17 deal it was a great day for Dublin and now it's time to get the diggers on the ground that are selling the virtues of this proposal to the residents across the North West Inner City to their Dan complete turn about faced in the last few weeks it clearly shows to me the Shinfield approach is more about saving the seat of Mary Lou McDonald then it is building homes in O'Devaney Gardens Lord Mayor Finney Gayle Councillors support the big enough 824 homes in O'Devaney Gardens thank
you Councillor constituents
will have the opportunity of council housing the opportunity of affordable accommodation and the opportunity to buy their homes with support of the state and in
the House or on behalf
of the Labour party Councillor
Councillor Joe koslow thank you Lord Mayor and also my condolences to

Joe Costello Lab - 2:23:44

the Deputy Chief Executive and my compliments for all the good work that has been done by the manager and his staff
O'Devaney Gardens I've lived with Avenue Gardens all my life all my political life and certainly there were a lot of problems in that area the end result was the decision was made to demolish them in 2 thousand and 4 and every attempt to put together a programme and a project was met with failure of the public Private Partnership in June 2 thousand and 8 and it is only now that we have got a new Programme together the presentation last month I thought was flawed and I opposed it because it was very much on a private basis what we have before us now with the good work that has been done is that 80 percent of the housing is going to be affordable affordable purchase affordable rental and social housing so that is a huge change from the 50 percent was there be 50 percent private housing that was in the first proposal also this going to be mixed tenure School be pepper-potted pepper potted so that all the House is going to be indistinguishable so you're going to have social houses indistinguishable from all of the private houses I am delighted also that we have put in an employment clause where now there's going to be 20 percent local employment
from the live registered and an in-built 5 percent apprenticeship also the fact that there's going to be a complex for senior citizens empty-nesters and also that it's going to be ring-fenced for Local allocation in the area these are all major changes that has taken place and I am somebody I am somebody I am somebody that has been agreed to let people speak I am somebody that is living in the area I am working in the area of the Community constantly in the area I want to see a good integrated development here and I see this as the first step to having that don't forget that this is part of a larger area that that plays into the whole area larger plan we are going to have 10 thousand students on the site on the other side of Grange Gorman next September we're going to happen in the region of 2 thousand permanent residents out of this development so with very important that we get the mix right it's very important that we get an integrated development it's very important that we all work together and that we put right the right solution to and I believe that this project is moving in that direction thank you
On behalf of the Sinn Fein group
Tara

Cllr Daithí Doolan, SF - 2:26:22

first I want to commend the campaign that we hear outside and welcome the residents into the public gallery are very welcome to be here to is great to see so many people here clearly shows the forecast system it has brought on in the public and that's important but unfortunately propose in front of us tonight is vague at best it is out of touch and misleading at worst it fails to tackle the important issue of affordable housing the affordable housing is way beyond the reach of ordinary people with most units 89 being at least a minimum of 300 thousand according to rebuilding Ireland the maximum loan given out thus far as we 288 thousand does not meet the requirement of the affordable units in front of us here
and Dublin City Council the average loan given out 188 thousand which wouldn't even cover the cheap or so-called affordable home of 240 250 thousand so it doesn't even tick the box on affordable housing the land initiative which we were all party to which I drove was an imperfect solution we said at then we say now will say it again it was never our preferred option we always championed Dublin City Council being the lead developer and yes I did say that my learned comrade on my right here said in 2 thousand 17 but times have changed we have developed a brand new model for St Michaels and that model can deliver Dublin City Council led development on public land and that's what we want for O'Devaney Gardens we now have that alternative model to deliver funding which which can deliver on O'Devaney site a proposal which we circulate to each group here in recent weeks we circulated a costed model 2 to each party and engaged where we could with the leaders of each of the groups some chose to ignore us some engaged with us some we had honest conversations about I think we have sown the seeds of an alternative plan in the mind of the ruling in the ruling coalition our proposal which was circulated outlined how we would develop one third affordable housing ranging from a one bedroom would cost 174 thousand 159 Euros of two or three bedroom unit at a maximum of 267 thousand and their figures sought an access from the Department from in parliamentary questions it will be done in three phases developing one third affordable one third Council on one third cost rental what we see in front of us here tonight is the sale of private units to voluntary housing body because what they don't go into the details how much will those units cost where does a funding come from where will the loans come from and how much they will charge or so-called affordable rent this is this is my understanding and I stand to be corrected if I am wrong that a third 30 percent of the loans that will be used by voluntary housing bodies will have to come from the state and we need to see see why is that money coming from the site to further line the pockets of of a of a developer in conclusion
what we're saying is brought down to one A3 support the alternative plan which was done in three phases start in January Twenty Twenty where construction start in in january 20 21 in conclusion I appeal to the ruling group led by Fina fall and the Greens to vote down tonight 1 A3 proposal work with us and the other parties to deliver a Dublin City Council led development which delivers real affordable housing council housing and truly cost rental accommodation Grammy Lomography
sorry could

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:29:31

the on behalf of the social Democrats Councillor Gary gallon
thank you over

Gary Gannon SD - 2:29:39

no we could I ask Members in the no the public gallery are very very loud your very sorry Councillor members of the public are very welcome

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:29:47

ha you're here you're here to observe the debate but unfortunately applause and shouts from public gallery and not permitted under under the Standing orders and I would ask you to refrain from doing that place or else will have to put clear the public gallery and I think we want to get on with the vote cancer gallon

Gary Gannon SD - 2:30:03

let me I'm not gonna say here to try to convince anybody in this Chamber that this is a good deal it's a good deal for the developer both as other considerations that need to be taken into account here
what we have tried to do is to make the best of an incredibly bad situation
I believe it is an absolute travesty that in order to deliver public House and on publicly owned land that we need to forest law in the pockets of the developer in this city but such is the nature of the land House initiative that was initiated in this Chamber four years ago has left us in this position
my politics are about delivering for people people who contact me everyday people who call me up who talked to me about the 11th situations and how their lives have been destroyed put his homeless crisis or person to the back of me just refer to me as a cello or on her own
vomit cello I want to tell you what materials are going to be my terms are 247 units of social housing therefore people who come into my clinic who tell me a belter how impacting this housing prices in their children's lives and who are looked at and tell them all do absolutely everything in my power to alleviate upon
my terms for asset is 147 units of affordable housing
my terms so that cello is Tilden 47 units of course Rendall in this city the force of its troika praises places absolute pressure on this government to initiate the scheme that they claimed on F Omar Saleh absolutely gone on and days Emma teams and oil sleep comfortably known that would in the lifetime of this Chamber real families will be have a home where they can sleep in those I want to touch on a couple of other factors those people in this Chamber to knowing who would sacrifices to nameless faceless markets and others who want to sacrifice the people they claim to represent to ideological purity I don't live in America and I don't live in a utopia I live in a society and we have to make the best decision for the people that not only elected be for the people of this city I believe I'm going to do it I hear to knowing there is one of the fact I want to play in and it's regarding the idea of conviction and cowardice I fully respect that there are people in this Chamber who have demonstrated their convictions all throughout this process they voted against his four years ago and has brought to the Chamber and if TV consistency in everyday since and a respecter others who've demonstrate immense cowardice and their playing politics with people's lives and it is grotesquely unfair and I want you to know that I see you I absolutely see you it's unfair to the people who build their profiles claiming to represent pollution impact but a homeless crisis
I'm not going to be
not going to be pure in terms of this decision but I'm going to be honest with the people I represent
thank you Councillor Carolyn on behalf of the

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:32:53

half of the people before profit Group Councillor Tina MacVeigh
thank server

Cllr Tina MacVeigh, PBPA - 2:32:57

hear voices the Duke and are outside our the voices of activists that represent a variety of housing action groups and housing campaigns that in turn then represent a vast number of communities for whom ordinary people for whom affordable sustainable housing is completely out of reach and the so-called deal is not going to make any difference and some of you in the agreement parties have actually referred to this as not perfect and ugly deal and that's exactly what it is it has also been described as a land giveaway and that's what it is it's a transfer of wealth from public purse public money into the hands of a developer into the pockets of the developer I should say and there's no other way to dress it up you're either for or against the transfer of wealth from the public purse to that of a private developer and that's exactly what's happening here we're resurrecting the failed PPP process and the only people who benefit in that scenario are the developers were entering the term completely redundant the term unaffordable this is not affordable housing you have to earn a salary of way beyond 70 thousand 2 in order to be able to get a mortgage that is going to allow you to access that kind of housing and yes we are in a position to change this we are actually in a position to do something else we're in a position to vote against this tonight yes to take another year or two to get this right we can as as Councillor Doolan said there are alternatives that are alternative that have been presented to you but they're not being discussed the only thing that is stopping any other deal on their land and O'Devaney Gardens is political will it's the political decision of this neoliberal government and anybody who supports this deal is just playing into the populist idealism of a neoliberal government and you can say whatever you want there's no alternative we have to do this it's better than nothing now there is always an alternative and this case the alternative is to stand up for the people of this city the voices that you hear outside of the voices of people per and those voices will be better dealt by you not use our being the efforts of those of us who want to really make a difference to the people of the city who want to live and and forward a progressive city where people actually have the right to access the housing and the social rights that they deserve so by voting in this deal you're actually serving all the efforts of all of those who care enough to get out there and campaign to make the lot of the people of this city better and shame on you shame on you for thinking that this is a deal that there is a guarantee here that is going to bring this to the table this is not a deal this is just being dressed up to make it look like a deal so that you are considered better at night we're not going to support this there's no way we're going to support the sale of public land it in your double agreement that you would not say this is the second time that you've got to get your word and that's the worst of it people out there can be forgiven for wondering why politicians never be believed
grass

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:35:37

possibly not have applause in the public gallery think I've said that already
we know will now proceed to open the list
so it's one minute each and Keller could ask at this point it's five to nine we have all of the brevity its and the remainder of the disposals one or two of which are sensitive OK can I ask a question would I'm looking for indications he ran an agreement is is it possible to pass the previous without debate
yes could can I take the without debate
grade agreed
the remainder of the disposals is or is there is there any disposal which are contentious which will people are likely to object to no could I pass the disposals it's agreed OK we proceed them with the debate and I'll start so
sorry proposer and seconder for that
Councillor Paddy McCartin

Cllr Paddy McCartan FG - 2:36:33

thank you Lord Mayor and January 2 thousand 17 were 63
Members in this Chamber
the vote that knowledge was 53 in favour age voted against of the age who voted against three of them then proceeded to lose their seats in the local elections so what I am saying here is that there was massive support for the proposal and particularly from the Sinn Fein grouping every single one of them voted in favour of it and I know Deiniolen was uncomfortable there tonight in the way he spoke I have a great admiration for Councillor Doolan as Chair of the Housing SPC but his heart was not in his comments there
Finaghy and have been consistent right from the beginning we would have supported the deal last month will support the deal this month but there are problems Lord Mayor with this deal with the
thank you Councillor McCartan the next speaker is Councillor Janice Boylan

Janice Boylan SF - 2:37:41

allowed me I definitely gardens is the place I grew up and I am proud of that and I want to welcome those from our DG community into the Chamber tonight in 2 thousand 14 the blocks were still standing after fell P P P that left to compete Community apparently struck off the map because some people in this Chamber forgot where the even was at that stage the majority of people have been moved out and into their new homes there was however a large number of people left living in horrendous conditions and no one seemed to care to give them a voice well I did and when I was elected I promise them that I would support a plan that would see the area regenerated and then then moved into their new homes I my champagne colleagues rolled up their sleeves and got stuck in to try to deliver homes on that site at the time the majority of people I spoke to on a daily basis wanted me to support the plan one of the reasons was because they will be left in blocks in horrendous conditions the community always wanted a plan that delivered affordable homes slowly overtimes chains to time changed and all the people from the fact House Tankard and the blocks were knocked down the plan on the table right now for the last three years was never our plan and when the Minister finally announced why aren't
you Councillor Boyle and Councillor John Lines
what Mick Lyons tonight no once this is your Group
Leader agreed
it was important to answer Councillor that few seconds
please check out and Lord Mayor I haven't spoken once other Councillors in this Chamber can call me what they want to can say what they want I stand off our listening to the residents when they pleaded for the plan so they got held out of the blocks we were told time and time again no other option mobile you Councillor
Hussain
Councillor John lawyer Sir John lines

Cllr John Lyons, Ind. - 2:39:20

John lines
thanks Lord Mayor I'll be voting against this proposal tonight I voted against the previous iterations of this proposal when it was led by the Sinn Fein group who said that it wasn't a perfect day but it was the only deal on the table we hear the same refrain here this morning by people in the social Democrats Fina fall the Greens and Labor and it's hugely important take out the slogan take out the insults and the clapping and the rest of it it's hugely important that we have clarity on do you believe that a private developer should profit from the human misery that is the housing crisis true to sell off of public land I don't believe it I don't think we should I think the Dublin City Council can do lot better that we could drive a public affordable rental model on that land that's what we should be doing unfortunately I think what we have here is people who don't believe there is an alternative but Lord Mayor does a couple of serious issues here and I hope you give me a couple of seconds to ask them there's been substantive material changes to the report in terms of that re addendum that we only received three hours ago
Estyn three hours ago to the commencement of the meeting so I would like the Lijun's opinion on this can we actually vote on this document here tonight because there's a lot of detail says nine different changes Lord Mayor in the addendum and we haven't had time to address them practically Council Lord Mayor appreciate your question but what more can I just finish on this just with your indulgence I think it's hugely important that if we vote to pass this agreement here tonight this is the problem you will further entrench the neoliberal model of NFL already in Councillor A-list complexity Paraguay emotionally reject and I say Calzaghe's I'm going to be very rigid with the one minute because we will not get to all the list that we don't Councillor me on McDonagh's

Cllr Mícheál MacDonncha, S.F. - 2:41:08

well we have been accused and Shinn Féin or been inconsistent weeping entirely consistent on this issue we said to begin and this was never our preferred option elsewhere this was never our preferred option cows when we when we decided to go along with the original plan the key and crucial issue was what would affordability B and we raised here over and over again where is the government affordable housing scheme and this was going to be crucial to the delivery of this plan we only saw on September
figures for so-called affordability and it's quite clear from those figures and from the revised figures that we have only got to see evening as Councillors have said that it is not affordable so affordability is not built into this plan and therefore Sinn Fein cannot support us and we are entirely consistent on that from the first day onto now and an additional point this Council would not be divided on this issue where it not for the fact that we have had successive governments both Fina fall in Finaghy Ayr where I ideologically opposed to the delivery of public housing on public land that's what we should be discussing here house in the car
councillor Pat on

Pat Dunne - 2:42:16

councillor Pat on sorry
Lord Mayor the great public housing estates of this city places like Crumlin and remnant Ballyfermot camera fingerless Marino were built by Dublin City Council I'm glad we didn't have a Green party and a sock damn party and a pink Labour party in power in the nineteen thirtys the nineteen fortys and the nineteen fiftys because they would because because because they would have never built anything and certainly wasn't anybody in public housing
and I think the lesson and this is that if you decide for whatever reason the perfect deal the imperfect Dale that is more important to have a bomb on the Lord Mayor's seat in The Mansion House that built or public housing for the people who need in this city that is exactly what the Dublin agreement is basically saying to not just to May but the people of Dublin Lord Mayor or leave it at that Councillor Noelene
Riley

Cllr Noeleen Reilly, Ind - 2:43:22

I suppose when I think of regeneration I think of areas where people who were born and bred in those areas can lay down their routes for another number of decades and that includes you know the children of of people whether it's true buying a home or whether it's true getting a house from the Council or the prioritising body when I look at the O'Devaney deal I don't see how that's possible and I know one of the other Councillors have said that anyone that lived there before has got rehoused but I'm sure that our children would like to go back and live in that area whether it be to buy or to rent and that that just isn't possible with the affordable element I have a huge concern about our inner city areas there seem to be combing places where people who are born and bred there can no longer afford to live there and that is not what regeneration of is about its supposed to be making the lives of people who were born in that area better and better for all of the community that live in that area and that's not what's in this deal at all so I won't be supporting it but
you guys are only Councillor Carolyn Stocker

Cllr Catherine Stocker S.D - 2:44:32

thank you Lord Mayor we are operating here in the constraints quite obviously of a legacy deal created by Sinn Fein and negotiated with the fina Gael Minister and I would love to have the option of ideological purity on this but I ideological purity will not put roofs over the heads of the 650 plus people that the social affordable and cost rental units here will deliver for my priority as is that of everybody or almost everybody in the Chamber although we have different means of achieving it is the people on social housing lists the people on half the people living within secure tenure crushing anxiety uncertainty in their lives whether they can remain in the area where their children go to school where they are going to be living this time next year
on a factual matter I'd like to correct Councillor do learn if you apply to the rebuilding Ireland home-loan you will get a loan of 288 thousand in combination with a 10 percent deposit will buy you the top
are priced of of these units no just factually I'm afraid is incorrect there
what's not being factored
thank you Councillor soccer and 40 Councillor Hazel choose next

Cllr Hazel Chu G.P - 2:45:46

councillors just whereas the select the Sunday finish speaking Council to
apologies Councillor Councillor James Kagan

Cllr Naoise O'Muiri FG - 2:46:04

thank you Lord Mayor this is a good day as far as I'm concerned that there are many days in the life of a councillor that we're going to get the opportunity to vote in favour of 768 residential units to be

Cllr James Geoghegan F.G - 2:46:16

built in our city that we actually have the power to do that
and I want to pay tribute to Brandon Kenny in all of his officials who have actually arrived at this outcome that we now have but I do want to say this Fina fall may have fooled their colleagues in the Dublin agreement that were voting for something different to what Fina fall were going to vote for last month but there is nothing there is not one iota of the legal document that we are voting on next to the next one to come up that changes in any shape or form what the what was put before this Clore a month ago and that is a fact or voting for is to request a developer to pay money in order to sell their houses for cost rental where given the developer the keys to make as much money as he wants in order to 2 x cost rental houses
the thank you Councillor Gagan Councillor nissho nissho Murray

Cllr Naoise O'Muiri FG - 2:47:12

Kermorgant are very well as as cancer Gagan my colleague has mentioned that this is the same deal or various last month and I think the pragmatic wing and the Green party have confirmed that this evening then this new proposal or there is bogus this new element is disposed of as we have known named housing body with an unidentified an identified source of funds going to buy houses at a price and I quote at a price to be determined by the preferred tender e Bartra on quote I mean that's a wide open transaction deal Lord Mayor and the City Council is not Brendan Kenny and the official report confirms that the City Council will not be in this deal in this new part of the deal this is a deal to be done somewhere else with no oversight by this Chamber now is the time to do the deal and to get everything on the table so we support the proposal as that was brought last month
are you know no matter I don't care how many press conferences that are done down at the marginalised by the Dublin agreement parties is incredibly naive to think that this
thank you Councillor Councillor Councillor councillor is shared across Council Mayor shared a

Cllr Marie Sherlock Lab - 2:48:31

councillor Murray
evocative area the easy thing to do tonight is to vote against this these proposals this isn't ideal this is not the model of housing that I want developed in Dublin
and it is a waste of state resources but
we have to be clear the reason we're in this mess is because our colleagues and fina Gael have allowed us into a situation where the government will only allow developer led privately developed housing in this city and the government control controls the purse strings far funding for for housing in this city so let's be clear here that the reason that we're voting on this proposed and I am happy with my colleagues in the Labour party and other parties working
cancer TV shows or Dermot Lacey
sort of affordable

Dermot Lacey Lab - 2:49:29

councillor
Lord Mayor I live in one of those houses task Irish governments built back in the nineteen fiftys the differing first we had a government committed to social and affordable housing in those days we don't have that now and we have to deal with the context we've had five years have shown playing Chair of the Housing Committee or Deputy Gardens went nowhere five months into the Dublin agreement were making progress I consider that to be a good decision let's look let's look at what we're delivering here tonight we're delivering more affordable housing where delivering a new affordable rental model where we where delivering better community facilities were delivering a local labour close and we're delivering a plan that can actually start in the next couple of weeks that to me is progress I don't have ever agonised but anything like a database original or Deputy garden proposed the last one I didn't want to stop something happening because that community has waited far too long this is a way to make progress in a very imperfect political system and I do as leader of Labour Group and to pay tribute to all your Agnew helser elsewhere Alison Gilliland

Cllr Alison Gilliland, Lab - 2:50:38

comment that art Vera like many of my colleagues have been torn on the finest situation that we find ourselves in with this proposal and particularly the financial options open to us cancer McAdam mentioned the taxpayers' money and yes taxpayers' money will go to fund this development and we go to a private developer to do so
but the options open to us are limited I have considered the taxpayers' cost to families who are in private landlords tenancies in receipt of her and let's look at a Conservative 3 year wait if we were to go back to scratch that's 9 million taxpayers' money in happier given to them
200 families in emergency accommodation 100 euro a night in a hotel for three years that's conservative that's 22 million we don't have options we have to deal with realities we spoke earlier on about if you look at the Housing report only over 10 percent argue helser
Councillor Mary Freehill cancer
councillor Mary Freehill thank you Councillor

Cllr Mary Freehill, Lab - 2:51:49

this issue has been on the City Council's agenda since 2 thousand and 4 and during that time no houses or any kind of dwellings have been built I think that's the first thing I find it very very strange though listening to Councillor Janice Boylan
talking about how wonderful it could be when in fact our proposal luncheon feigns proposal when it was put to the Council she very enthusiastically welcomed it and it's nothing nothing like the proposal that we actually have now for
social and affordable which is going to be ring-fenced
where we have affordable rented and intermediate are much much better deal that were getting and finally can I say that I am proud of the fact that the Labour party for the number of years that we have ever ever been in power have built more houses than any other party during my time we build the PYD the Picture House ring towns at City Qi RU Councillor
Coulson onto the Flynn and Councillor Anthony Flinn cancer onto the Flynn

Cllr Anthony Flynn Ind - 2:52:55

thanks Lord Mayor Lord Mayor first of all I want to congratulate the Dublin agreement signature use because you swallowed some brick the Health our lawyers to were the one that was handed hears boy management because the agreement that use of 0 0 tonight has absolutely no change the agreement that use deferred here last month there is no difference accept the fact that there's 140 million euros in state subsidies going to be provided onto the O'Devaney Gardens lads it's absolutely disgraceful these here it's not worth the paper it's written on Bartra capital that deal there's no commitments here on that paper whatsoever although it that's all smoke and mirrors and promises nothing there to say that there is actually going to be cost rental or affordable or any kind of proper
commitment to the Council from Bart Recapital everything that's in that again as I said a smoke and mirrors will look we had an opportunity here as a Council to stick it up to management and tell management outright that we're not going to have those brick shutdown outro to weighty tried to do with my colleagues at the Central Area Committee two months ago on the force produced this
this proposal to us we could have told the developer no we're not going to allow sold alone when it comes to what you already knew Councillor
for any Councillor Tom Brabazon

Cllr Deputy Lord Mayor, Tom Brabazon, FF - 2:54:04

councillor James McGrath
Gulmarg without just want to reassure people watching on the webcast not to adjust your set you haven't switched over to reel in the years

Overall - 2:54:22

to watch Fina fall and their allies proposing and bacchanal backroom deals with housing developers are taught them days are well gone

Cllr Seamas McGrattan, SF - 2:54:29

last Mintlaw Ardverikie we defer this to to refer to Group leaders of the CBC as has been done before years on this to seek to proposal and into smaller and we get an e-mail from the Press Office of Dublin City Council doubts that the Dublin agreement has come to a deal with no information given to the rest of the Chamber and where accounts are so I just ask how did that happen how did I come about as a CPG meeting last week there's no information given to towards the that so I just like more information on that
when this day was forced put the Council's five years ago we were told was 10 percent public lands and that was it was not known as can be done we've pushed and pushed we've got so far why not keep going at this stage why we accept that the same thing that was said from the survey start why except that now if we if and where I acknowledge people like you Councillor Howells there and I'll ring

Lord Mayor Nial Ring Ind - 2:55:21

where just a couple of points the first one just like to reiterate what Councillor Lyons said and get clarification from the Law agent given that this is a material change and we were only given it within a few hours of the meeting should it understanding or should we be given three days' notice of such a significant change just what Councillor Flynn said departure document is actually a sham it gives us an option but it does talk about the pricing and or pricing is exactly what it will be deprived pricing and Knowles and those that 30 percent DCC are already providing 52 six houses on the site and this has been taken in the developers getting the benefit of dot 56 so in actual fact he's do building 192 Hell's is for the social it's a bad deal for Dublin City Council it's a bad deal for the taxpayer and is bad deal of course for the homeless people but the documentation does only one honest page and that's Page 2 1 6 but remember wanting about a lie a lie as actually to lies one is diverse new tells July and the other lie is justifying a to yourself or margrave
public councils councillors at this time I'm looking at 9 15 the meeting closed at 9 30 can I suggest that we suspend Standing orders
to such time that this matter can be dealt with
no later than 10 o'clock is that OK A-grades continue to this

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 2:56:39

Councillor Rachel Barton

Cllr Racheal Batten F.F - 2:56:43

thank you not one and councils should be in this chamber discussing this because the Council should be building houses the reality is that the Minister won't give funding for the Council to do that
and what you did last month whilst send us a blackmail letter saying that he would withhold even the small funding that he is giving to this development if we didn't go ahead with it if I thought that voting no would mean that we'd get 100 percent housing on that absolutely but the reality is voting no means that we will get zero houses on that property I would ask that the fina Gael ministers if they fina Gael members think that they can do better weather absolutely please go and ask your Minister for the money for this and we will happily vote for it
or maybe you could just ask him to resign because it's completely incompetent
Council Councillor craning needlework

Cllr Criona Ni Dhalaigh, SF - 2:57:44

God Margot first of all I will say I don't doubt the sincerity of a lot of people who are actually supporting this it is it's your conflicted on and I understand that but I think this is a bad deal and I think it's a bad deal for Dublin I think it's a bad day for the Council my preferred option is for Dublin City Council the build these units and for me it goes against the grain to give developer 64 million profit for f to build on our land he selling them at market costs as if he bought them at Mark I bought the land on market cost when he didn't and the other thing is that everyone keeps referring to St Michael Steele
18 months later are more I'm on that Regeneration Board we still don't have any legislation on affordable or cost rental model we still don't have it so were working in a vacuum here and also I sit on for Regeneration Boards they are really nervous the communities in those flat complexes are really really nervous that described type of deal will set a precedent for their sites because they are sitting on huge sites
argue cables are cancer Patricia Rowe Councillor Patricia Rao

Patricia Roe SD - 2:58:49

thank you have our this deal is a result of Van Gogh policy which prefers the market to provide housing rather than have Local authorities build local authority housing
I load the fact that DCC did this deal reporter put it is wrong to say that we can go back on it or we can go back as the previous speaker said to a St Michael's estate type deal
I load the fact that developers set to make such a profit but private landlords are making profits at this very moment and will continue to make it for the next number of years
I am not happy to vote for this but I will not see O'Devaney Gardens lie idle for the next five or more years I am unhappy with the steel as a lot of people are and I am really conflicted but I think it is the right thing to do to vote for this at this time and not just be a naysayer and say we are not going to go ahead and we're going to vote down and back to the drawing board again we've been around and round and round this is a bad deal for Dublin City Council it is not a bad deal for Dublin homeless we are going to provide 813 rolling
houses Councillor Dublin Chris Anders

Cllr Chris Andrews, SF - 2:59:54

thanks Lord Mayor
there's no one in this Chamber
that is waiting
for ideological purity we all know that's not going to happen for too long around
and we know that isn't going to
happen Shinn Féin from the start supported the redevelopment of O'Devaney Gardens but like everything else the devil is in the detail and the detail here means that we are effectively making a rich company even richer and we want real community regeneration that benefits local and not more gentrification we will stand up for the residents of O'Devaney Gardens as we will for all the people across Dublin thanks Lord Mayor cow Councillor Patrick Costello
almost almost touched at their

Cllr Patrick Costello, GP - 3:00:40

thanks Lord Mayor basic look everybody says the same thing we need homes in this city we need homes and we need housing we need it now
my concern is the cancelling this project will cause significant delays to delivering that much needed housing there's a long drawn-out saga of neglect on this site and it's a long sorry story that will continue if we vote this deal down like so many other things in Local government we have to go cap in hand begging central government in terms of housing when we do this we were met with the Minister who I believe is an ideological blind spot when it comes to public housing this isn't perfect but I do believe it is the best we can do now and I do believe that it will make a difference now if we wait for the perfect deal this site will be empty for five years 10 years from now and will still be empty thank you
Councillor
tattoo thank you

Cllr Donna Cooney G.P - 3:01:35

this not it's not I'm not
I so with very I suppose this is a very very difficult decision to make and
you know this is not the type of of housing model that we wanted we wanted to be all cost rental we all want to be the Vienna housing model this is something that was negotiated before we were elected back in the time when I suppose shin Fane were celebrating its on all over the place that there were 600 social affordable housing here
no we tried to to have a meeting with the Minister we tried to come to deal so that we could actually build on this you know but we can't even get a bridging loan so that we can build cost rental you know we can't have a legal document that we've looked for that because it's not possible to do because the of of the agreement that was already put in
also
I suppose in the sense that the
we will end up and I suppose there's been some mistruths as well the affordable I have that question about affordable and I ask that question and I was told that in fact it's not based on your income to times your income 3 Councillor income going to a bank because you'll be able to get the loan like the same loans that people were able to get off the Council Dr Dublin City Council previously loyal but there will have to pay when the economy will be but I am OK I know you will end up with 8

Cllr Anthony Connaghan, SF - 3:02:58

thank you Councillor Councillor Anthony Connaghan got over from the start we weren't happy with this plan but remember 10 percent was what their social housing at the very start we fought hard to get a plan and now counts are boiling on the Housing SPC brought up all concerns for local residents numerous meetings were held locally and at one stage I think our party was the only one that turned up to the deal with local residents to take on board what my main issue with this was the affordability I don't really have a problem a private house and gone on public land if it was affordable for people this isn't affordable now have heard people from across the Chamber here given out by the Minister or more feeder those a vote of no confidence in I think twice in the last few years and parties in this Chamber abstained or voted against a minute no confidence motion it is down to an ideological choice here if public land they can build public House now the Dublin agreement or going on about the Vienna model and saying ODIs as the model we should be pursuing this isn't the Vienna model if you wanted to vote this down and then look if I think I also quarter in counter to either roaster
polion

Cllr Daithí de Roiste, FF - 3:04:11

gosod either ocean Margot third Vera or verges as a starter like commend Councillor Gannon
I agreed and we don't live in a utopia politics is about the Arctic palm compromising in this instance for me it's about the art of delivery will also commend Councillor McCartan
who highlighted the fact that this was mandated by the last Council that the officials were sent off to look at the land initiative
the need for housing has never been more in this City
Mr. Murphy's way out of his depth but we have on the table here all in on O'Devaney Gardens is 824 homes 247 social 247 affordable rental 165 affordable houses and 165 houses for private people to purchase as well who I might add deserve a home just as much as everybody else
I do think it's important to like you're looking at 20 percent local employment 5 percent of of
on an apprenticeship scheme on this and I implore colleagues know it's not perfect but you know what not in politics ever is what it is it's the best deal on the table it's a good deal and Adam Parr colleagues right across the Chamber to accept it grew Margot Councillor Hazel Chu
event

Cllr Hazel Chu G.P - 3:05:23

I think for me it's we've had colleagues who have been saying shameful for us for trying to fill for this and we've had colleagues that question our motives as well and the bottom line is the people out there chanting and the people in the gallery don't trust politicians because we don't do anything we talk about doing stuff but we don't and this is a chance to actually do something we need to build houses that's the bottom line we can talk about it for another decade and in the decade homelessness will double again and that is what has happened in the last decade so what we need to start doing is building houses it's not perfect it's not the best deal looking have absolutely but it will get people off the housing this it will get 600 to 800 people off the housing this and that is a question of do we want to do that and it is time for us to act and actually do something about the issues Q
thank you Councillor Councillor tahini

Cllr Deirdre Heney, FF - 3:06:28

sorry Councillor Declan Flanagan

Cllr Declan Flanagan FG - 3:06:36

House are Jacqueline tiger
could I ask the Members of this Chamber to resist
can I ask the members of the public gallery
going to be too we ask
could I ask the members

Cllr Lord Mayor, Paul McAuliffe FF - 3:07:03

I go to two options we could suspend the meeting or we can clear the gallery
councillor Catherine is proposing that we take the vote
can the Council
I propose that we put the motion to the Chamber and the report to the Chamber it's our report to grades
can we put it to a vote
members of the chamber could I ask
Can I ask the people take their seats
I ask the people take their seats
members' vote is open members to vote is open
members to vote is open
members the vote is opened
Members' support is open can we please ask Members to vote
members to vote is open class of people
the minutes can I ask Members please take their seats and both as appropriate receding
I give Members
as ever
well about close to both we are about to close about
I say to those people are disturb the chamber you're PIs wrote to determine traffic passes in this Chamber prevented houses are represented
the people who prevented a screening for proceeding have no mandate and they have read the script democratic mandate on behalf of those Members here I want to object to that
the building is so close
I will not be bullied this Chamber will not be bullied
the
schedule 2 minutes
the
Members to read the result of the vote
those present those present to vote
guards
just for a moment we can take a septum side
so those present here to push to 58 yes in favour 39 no 18 abstain 1 the report passes and the meeting concludes
thank you Members
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